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A case for using punctuation in Slack

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Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#61

Post by necovek »

soggybutter wrote: post #59
adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

100% agree about ending periods. I always read those messages as being irritated or overly firm. Potentially worse, though, are people who have a habit of abusing ellipses (...) in weird places. My boss does this in virtually every sentence, sometimes multiple times, and it always comes off like he can't believe you'd say something so stupid

I am not sure why would you think that... If a period is to make a statement firmer, ellipsis does it triple...

Like that, right? ;)

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#62

Post by armoredkitten »

I can't help but feel like the real point the author is trying (not very successfully) to communicate is the importance of considering how other people will interpret and understand your messages. This includes content (will they understand this acronym?), but also includes how they are likely to interpret the tone of your message. Punctuation, grammar, emojis, etc. help to communicate tone -- but that doesn't lend itself to a blanket "always use punctuation" statement. Being too formal can appear cold and aloof; being too informal can appear apathetic or unkind.

It's also important to consider the range of reactions. For those who understand an acronym, they likely won't even notice; for those who don't understand it, they risk losing face and potentially looking like an idiot when they have to ask what the acronym means. The "time saved" is helpful, sure, but considering how people will respond goes beyond "how much time will they spend asking a follow-up question?" and also includes "how will they feel if they don't understand this?"

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#63

Post by justin_oaks »

parliament32 wrote: post #29

I feel like people complaining about this didn't grow up in the IRC/IM era. It probably depends on your corp's culture as well, but for us, Slack is a very informal communcation mechanism. If you need to write something formal, you use an email. Slack is equivalent to shouting out to the room (as if you were there in person).

I think it's less about formalism than it is about clear communication.

People will also be confused if you shout out a message to the room without appropriate pauses (commas or periods) or without the right tone (question marks).

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#64

Post by vbql »

gwright wrote: post #55
axaxs wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, but not sure why now that you mention it. I'm a stickler for grammar, oxford commas and all, but in messaging, periods feel...rude at times. I can't explain why, perhaps it is the 'conclusion in thought' aspect.

This discussion is really confusing me. Are people talking about periods being negative when used anywhere? when used in the last sentence in a multi-sentence message? when used at the end of a single sentence/thought message? Confused.

I'm sure there will be a CoC soon that classifies period terminated messages as a micro aggression.

Penalties will be between 6 to 12 months hard labor in a re-education camp, where 15 year olds make you scrub the floor and kiss their boots.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#65

Post by axaxs »

gwright wrote: post #55
axaxs wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, but not sure why now that you mention it. I'm a stickler for grammar, oxford commas and all, but in messaging, periods feel...rude at times. I can't explain why, perhaps it is the 'conclusion in thought' aspect.

This discussion is really confusing me. Are people talking about periods being negative when used anywhere? when used in the last sentence in a multi-sentence message? when used at the end of a single sentence/thought message? Confused.

For me, only when used on a single short message sentence. Long explanations and paragraphs get punctuated at usual.

I'll also add I'm not the arbiter of what is and isn't correct or wrong, just explaining my own opinion.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#66

Post by necovek »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #58

As someone of the younger generation who grew up always using mostly proper punctuation over texts, and avoided abbreviations for common terms this hits home. I'm 28 for reference, and I get VERY different vibes from those younger than me who join slack, and those older (40+ or so). The difference in meaning for different punctuation for these crowds is SO evident, I feel like I'm always playing translator for even t…

This sounds highly anecdotal: I am nearing 40 myself and have a bunch of 40+ colleagues, yet I rarely see them use ellipsis!

So in order to avoid throwing your anecdata altogether, how many people of each age group did you communicate with using text form?

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#67

Post by azangru »

This just goes back to the linguistic maxim, which (I am paraphrasing here) stipulates that the language is always a compromise between the convenience of the producer and the convenience of the consumer.

The more common context the producer and the consumer share, the less need there is for punctuation, spelling out abbreviations or other niceties.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#68

Post by iamdbtoo »

soggybutter wrote: post #59
adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

100% agree about ending periods. I always read those messages as being irritated or overly firm. Potentially worse, though, are people who have a habit of abusing ellipses (...) in weird places. My boss does this in virtually every sentence, sometimes multiple times, and it always comes off like he can't believe you'd say something so stupid

I find this odd because, to me, attributing malice because of the presence of a period is something you do in your own mind. You don't know the emotional state of the person who sent it, so you think of the worst possible outcome, but both are equally likely in the moment. You're just as free to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#69

Post by Slartie »

saagarjha wrote: post #2

I feel like (so, of course, this is how I use instant messaging) periods at the end of a message suggest the logical conclusion of a thought, and are far too formal to use with every message. Email, sure, but not chat. (I do use question marks and capitalize in general, but periods in particular seem strange to me.)

Periods generally end sentences, and if that sentence convenes a thought, they do conclude the thought. I consider that to be the default mode of conversation, regardless of whether it's chat or mail or whatever. I like it when people take the effort to bring their thoughts to a conclusion rather than flooding me with cheap stream-of-consciousness-style conversation (cheap for them, not for me), and I tend to treat others the same way I want to be treated.

If I want to explicitly leave a thought open for continuation, especially in chat style communication, I place three periods at the end of a sentence. I consider that an invitation to the reader's mind to conclude the sentence. So it's either one period or three of them for me, but none at all just feels wrong.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#70

Post by pochamago »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #52
quicklime wrote: post #14

Unfortunately, text (or Slack) messages with a period at the end are also perceived as less sincere, and sometimes passive-aggressive: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2... https://lifehacker.com/dont-use-periods-in-texts-1843744818

From the WaPo article you linked, regarding a period at the end of a sentence: > that's an indication that the text message period has taken on a life of its own. It is no longer just the correct way to end a sentence. It's an act of psychological warfare against your friends. It's so bizarre that people perceive some nefarious intent because a sentence ends with a period.

It's not that it's nefarious, but because human language often relies so much on the tone of voice used, we've begun creating informal norms for how to get that across in text form. A period at the end of a short phrase gives it a flat intonation in many circles. Communication isn't as simple as proscribing by fiat how people ought to use a given medium, and pragmatism requires that we adapt to what the group does for clear communication.
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