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Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

economist.com

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Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#61

Post by actuator »

systemvoltage wrote: post #14

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

I am not sure if this was something recent, if it was I can understand why someone new might find no point in it. F1 right now is going through one of the most dominating periods by a single team. While in initial days of Mercedes dominance after V6 switch, I could admire their engineering, now it just feels boring as they are so good that no team is able to compete on engineering.

But it is not like you can't appreciate other drivers. See the magnitude of difference in result that Verstappen is able to add. I think he is probably the best driver right now in F1.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#62

Post by throwdbaaway »

systemvoltage wrote: post #14

I mean this in the most respectful way: Can someone please explain the allure of watching F1 race on TV? I honestly sat down with a few friends and we watched Kimi Raikonnen but it was not a lot of action in terms of overtaking and drama - it was mostly inching forward and making time. I fully understand and appreciate the amount of skills that go into driving an F1 car, but what is in for the spectator?

Er, because of Martin Brundle? I watch a lot of F1 on TV and went to several live races, and for me F1 is more of a TV sports. The commentary makes a big difference, and also you get to see all the actions on TV (if the director is competent enough).

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#63

Post by skc »

pertymcpert wrote: post #39
draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

Explain the gulf in performance between the car that Verstappen is driving and Albon.

Not sure this helps your point immensely.

The cars are very similar but obviously not the same in the sense that Verstappens car will be tweaked to his preferences, and Albons to his within the relevant regulations.

So engineering still comes into play.

On top of that Verstappen being the lead driver means that alot of engineering effort is geared towards giving him specifically the car he needs, with his teammate having to adapt within that framework.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#64

Post by wintorez »

draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

I really wished there was a version of F1 with less mechanical and technical regulation to see what human ingenuity could achieve.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#65

Post by dboreham »

Apart from watching on TV and the movies, my only brush with this world was a 1/2 day spent interviewing at McLaren in 1990. It was very clear from every engineer I talked to that they had fairly low opinion of the drivers. One of the projects we discussed was a new telemetry system, its primary purpose to allow them to prove conclusively when the driver did something stupid.

I didn't take the job if anyone was curious, for personal reasons. Too much travel required to F1 events..

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#66

Post by taneq »

jcims wrote: post #46
olivermarks wrote: post #9

Depends on the motorsport. Take drag racing. top fuel driver after reaction time is mostly along for the ride, depends on quality of engineering to win/lose. Alcohol FC is immensely complicated to drive, also pro stock which is pure driving skill. MotoGP motor cycle racing is highly skilled and is IMO far, far more exciting than Formula One which used to be the fastest/most expensive formula amongst multiple division…

My favorite expression of motorsport is the Isle of Man TT. Mostly because it’s a freak show. Here’s a serene introduction for the uninitiated: https://youtu.be/zbaO8mzByvw Once you’re done with that, search YouTube for “Isle of Man TT onboard” and prepare thyself.

Oh man, I used to love watching IoMTT videos until I actually started riding a bike. Now they're legitimately terrifying.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#67

Post by barrkel »

wintorez wrote: post #64
draklor40 wrote: post #12

Mostly because modern F1 is more less about driving and more about optimzing fuel consumption, tyre wear, pitstop strategy and KERS. The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio, unlike the V12 , V10 era where the driver had more autonomy.

I really wished there was a version of F1 with less mechanical and technical regulation to see what human ingenuity could achieve.

The regulations exist both to put a cap on what the teams need to spend on R&D (if it's too much then smaller manufacturers and teams pull out and there's only two or three cars on the grid), and to make it safer for the drivers.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#68

Post by csours »

draklor40 wrote: post #36
itsoktocry wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The driver is merely a pilot doing what is instructed over the radio I think this severely understates the skill of some of the highest paid athletes on the planet.

Not taking away anything from the drivers. All of them are exceptional and possibly the best on the planet. That said, when you are racing over ~20ish races , as a team, it pretty much boils down to long term strategy and tactics. Kevin Schwantz and Wayne Rainey were 2 epic motorcyclists in the 90s. Schwantz had more individual wins, but it was Rainey that had more championships titles, because he was more consistent…

This is kind of fascinating to think about from an evolutionary perspective: Does it pay off more to have truly exceptional individuals that can outperform everyone else at times, but may be lost due to risk taking - or - is it better to have people that can perform consistently at a very high level?

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#69

Post by segmondy »

focom wrote: post #7
segmondy wrote: post #6

This entire argument is simply because Hamilton is black. He sets records and all of a sudden he can't shine by himself. Of course the team is important and very good but also so is Hamilton as is evident by his teammate who has the same car unless you truly believe Mercedes is giving his teammate a handicapped car.

Reading the first line: > Our statistical model finds that neither Lewis Hamilton nor Michael Schumacher is Formula 1’s greatest driver So its lame to play the racist card here.

Give me a break, let me guess, you are not black. Since Lewis got on top I have seen this argument come up, this rubbish didn't come up in the past. This same behavior happens all the time when a black person performs very well, folks find ways to take it away.

Re: Engineers, not racers, are the true drivers of success in motor sport

#70

Post by hexbinencoded »

Not F1, but super/hypercar related:

Christian von Koenigsegg is my soul brother. Engineer/CEO committed to excellence in extreme automotive manufacturing like:

- Cam-less heads (which I was always wondered why they didn't exist when I was kid 25 years ago because it would trounce VVTI).

- Complete carbon fibre wheels

- Optimized hybrid EV testbed models

- In-house, scratch-build EMS

- Highly-efficient (power per weight) motors

- Shooting for straight course speed world record

- Incredible styling and aerodynamics

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