VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#61

Post by clouddrover » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:13 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #54

clouddrover wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wireless charging would be the best solution. Charge where you park and no cables on the street: https://witricity.com/products/automotive/

My local council barely has enough money to patch potholes in the streets, they are switching the lights off at night to save money. Yet somehow.....they will build this expensive to build and maintain infrastructure? I imagine the first answer people will have is "it's simple! We will just let the private sector handle this!" - to which I say, this is an absolutely awful idea. The charging infrastructure is already…

> Yet somehow.....they will build this expensive to build and maintain infrastructure?

Sure. Ghent is: https://www.themayor.eu/ga/ghent-speeds-up-the-transition-to...

New York is: https://www.nypa.gov/services/clean-energy-advisory-services...

Tulsa is with chargers with built-in batteries for lower installation cost: https://freewiretech.com/news/electrifying-the-heartland-tul...

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#62

Post by jwieczorek » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

garbagetime wrote: post #28

romanoderoma wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

Norway isn't a part of the EU.

Norway isn't part of the EU but is part of the EEA. It is through that membership that it's bound by the same as other EU countries economic agreements that through simplification people tend to associate with the EU.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#63

Post by reify_null » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

082349872349872 wrote: post #44

reify_null wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has a decent charging infra, at least in the area where I'm at. It's been improving recently as well. Circle K (the petrol station chain formerly known as Statoil) has started installing chargers near where I live, so I would assume they are rolling this out nation wide. A lot of people have individual charging stations at their homes as well. I'm not sure of the state of charging stations in the smaller towns…

I had been assuming norway would have decent charging infra because I'd thought their parking lots already needed to be wired for engine heaters? Or are those only a swedish thing?

I have never heard of this existing, but I'm living at a coastal area, far away from the swedes.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#64

Post by clouddrover » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #60

clouddrover wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wireless charging would be the best solution. Charge where you park and no cables on the street: https://witricity.com/products/automotive/

The problem is that there is no infrastructure at all. Inductive charging is already a mature technology even for EVs. It's not going to change things up if nobody installs chargers.

Year by year there will be more infrastructure. Like these on-street pop up chargers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb5aA3Qepe8

Or lamppost chargers: https://thedriven.io/2020/03/24/siemens-converts-all-lamp-po...

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#65

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #26

gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that lev…

One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service. I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most peo…

[deleted]

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#66

Post by adrianN » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:19 AM UTC

ClikeX wrote: post #56

Brakenshire wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The taxes on fuel need to do a lot of heavy lifting, pricing in the cost of road building and maintenance, the effect of road congestion and air pollution in cities, and the effect of increased global warming. I’m sceptical they cover those factors. Although, it probably would be better to move more of the tax burden to car use in cities, and away from fuel. Driving a car in the countryside is much less damaging than…

We also get taxed for owning the car itself (Road Tax). Which is meant for road maintenance in the Netherlands. We pay a lot of taxes.

There are a number of studies that show that there are still many externalized costs for cars. A lot of course also applies to EVs (e.g. accidents, noise).

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#67

Post by gambiting » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:22 AM UTC

odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #26

gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The VW emissions scandal and them being forced to switch to EVs in the US as part of the settlement/punishment Has that actually happened? From my perspective the ongoing exodus towards EVs is due to EU enforcing incredibly strict emissions standard, basically from this year every manufacturer has to have a fleet average of 100g of CO2/km traveled, with very heavy fines paid for every single car sold above that lev…

One thing I don't understand is how the EU public will afford this. I drive a Plugin Hybrid, but since moving from my old place and living in an apartment, I have no where to charge it. The closest charging station is around 12km from me and has 2 plugs (it is in an Aldi). After that there is another on 4-5 km after also with 2 plugs and one is mostly out of service. I am all for lower emission vehicles, but most peo…

Yeah I also drive a PHEV and it just doesn't work if you can't charge it at home - you might as well not bother at all.

However, I think the idea going forward is that proper BEVs will charge at stupid fast rates - 150-200kW charges, giving you 200-300 miles range in just 30-40 minutes of charging.

And which point, for majority of commuters, it's not completely inconceivable that once a week you just go to a "fuel station" where you plug in for 30 minutes to fill up and that lasts you the whole week of commuting, even if you can't charge anywhere in between. We're not quite there yet, but I think that's the ultimate future.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#68

Post by romanoderoma » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #35

romanoderoma wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

Carbon emissions and units of currency are not fungible. So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives , then this is a pretty weak argument. Also, the producers aren't paying he cost, end users are[1] and without much in the way of alternatives. 1. always do, but you get where I'm coming from

> So unless some of that tax is intended to be a carbon tax and works to incentive cleaner alternatives, then this is a pretty weak argument.

Of course the incentive is towards cleaner alternatives, in my country is public transport (trains, trams and subway are electric here).

> Also, the producers aren't paying he cost

fiscal incentive for EV go straight to car producers pockets, I don't see the difference

taxing owners is a way to drive them to buy a different product, cheaper for the buyer and more profitable for the seller

it works both ways

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#69

Post by ArnoVW » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:25 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

It is true that Norway has an advantage, having the money to allow them to make this sort of investment. But rightly or wrongly, the entire economy is currently awash with credit to fight the pandemic-induced economic crisis.

But money is not the only reason it has worked. Norway is generating 95% of their electricity using hydro. A KW/h is cheaper in Norway than it is in France (which is notoriously cheap due to nuclear). People want to have an electric car, because it makes sense for them. Once the economy is converted, they will reduce the incentives, and they will be in a very good place.

Now we can say that that is also an unfair advantage (a geographic one). But they did build all those plants. Norway did play the long game.

We can all continue to say that there are no solutions to climate change, or we can take a leaf from their book and start playing the long game. The best moment to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best moment is today.

Wikipedia page on Norwegian Electricity sector: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway

Eurostat statistics on electricity prices in Europe: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#70

Post by garbagetime » Thu, Oct 08, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

Gwypaas wrote: post #59

garbagetime wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway isn't a part of the EU.

Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway, here is a more comprehensive view: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_... In short, as much part of EU you can be without being part of it. Norway keeps the freedom on key areas like fishing rights and agriculture while essentially being part of everything else without voting rights. And in some partnerships also having voting rights d…

>Too simple a take on the relations between EU and Norway

It's just the truth. Norway is not a member of the EU. But I agree that it is good to have a strong understanding of what exactly the relationship is between Norway and the European Union.