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Remote First at Brex

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Re: Remote First at Brex

#61

Post by devmunchies »

tempsy wrote: post #37

I blame FB for setting this bad precedent. Now that they've set the standard for remote compensation every company now has cover to adjust compensation using some flawed cost of living calculator.

I worked for an all-remote tech company before Covid. Their pay was based on large regions (e.g. the whole state of California as a region). This allowed you to do something like move to a cheap part of Utah but get paid a Salt Lake City salary.

I got paid Bay Area salary but lived in the Sierra Nevadas to the East, 30 minutes from Lake Tahoe.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#62

Post by dalyons »

jnwatson wrote: post #49
ryanSrich wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any company with shareholders is accountable first to them (for good or bad) and I'm not sure your board or CFO would agree that paying peak makes sense Good thing I have neither a board or a CFO. But to respond directly, I think you're down playing how much of an advantage over paying (as you've put it) can be for acquiring great talent. Great companies are built by great people. Paying them well for the work they…

I understand the ideal of it, but the main reason why it doesn't work is simple supply and demand. Your employment opportunity will seem compelling for folks that live in LCOL areas, or folks trying to escape HCOL. But for the 5x as many programmers that live in HCOL areas, your pay isn't competitive. If you want to reduce your candidate pool by 70 or 80%, by all means, go for it, but there's a clear market reason wh…

This is the reality, it’s supply and demand, not “fairness”

Re: Remote First at Brex

#63

Post by paxys »

carriganisms wrote: post #8

A service that does planning and execution of off-site meetups for remote companies is a great business idea. Essentially, travel agency/event planning for remote first companies. Once we're past COVID, a lot of companies are going to stick with remote first and making the planning of off-sites easy seems like a must need service.

There are lots and lots of corporate event planning companies out there. We used to use them a bunch even when we were all in the same city.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#64

Post by paxys »

_AzMoo wrote: post #34
enra wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you imagine hiring people with similar experience/skill level SF if they base salary offers are $200k and Europe people are happy with $100k since their rent/mortgage/livingcost is about 5-10x less? Pay everyone $200k or $100k (essentially stop hiring in high cost location)? Until the markets/remote salaries align, you kind of have to pay based salaries the people are able/need to receive in their respected…

If an employee is worth $200k to your company in SF, why are they not worth $200k to your company in Europe?

An employee is only worth the minimum it takes to keep them employed. Where is the competition that is paying them $200K in Europe?

Re: Remote First at Brex

#65

Post by kag0 »

jlj wrote: post #57
kag0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a name for that kind of thinking, but I can't recall what it is. Essentially you're minimizing cost by paying the lowest possible local rate, but isn't it just as valid for someone else to maximize quality by paying a competitive rate for the most expensive locale? Presumably both would be pushed to a middle (location independent) wage because the company minimizing price will (presumably) have issues hiring…

Game theory

I meant the thinking that tries to minimize cost and aims for "how much they have to pay you before you decide to quit".

Re: Remote First at Brex

#66

Post by paxys »

tempsy wrote: post #37

I blame FB for setting this bad precedent. Now that they've set the standard for remote compensation every company now has cover to adjust compensation using some flawed cost of living calculator.

That is how employment has always worked. Facebook did not invent market-based pay.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#67

Post by ponker »

kag0 wrote: post #20
nrmitchi wrote: post #11

> What happens to my compensation if I move? Brex pays by geographic market, so we will ultimately adjust an employee’s Total Compensation Value (TCV) if they relocate to where pay rates are different. However, for current Brex employees who relocate before Sep 1, 2021, Brex will not make any compensation adjustments until Sep 1, 2024 to help each of us manage through the unusual circumstances associated with COVID-1…

Can someone explain the rationale behind geographically based pay in remote-first companies? I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I don't know what aspects of the issue companies are actually looking at to decide that geo-based pay is the way to go.

It’s easiest to understand when you realize that the company is not going remote to pay SF salaries everywhere, they’re going remote to pay rock bottom salaries everywhere. Geographic pay is a temporary patch to give extra to people in SF while they wait for SF engineers to decamp to the boonies or be replaced by people who do.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#68

Post by andyjih_ »

ryanSrich wrote: post #23
kag0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain the rationale behind geographically based pay in remote-first companies? I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I don't know what aspects of the issue companies are actually looking at to decide that geo-based pay is the way to go.

It's a relic, and a bad one. I run a remote-first, remote-only company and we pay everyone based on experience and merit. Not location. If you want to stretch $150k in San Francisco go for it. Good luck having to live with 3 other roommates. However, if you want to take that same $150k and live like a king in the middle of Kansas that's an option as well. Adjusting someones pay simply because they're logging onto the…

Agreed. We're also building a remote-first, remote-only company and after much discussion landed on uniform salaries, regardless of geography in the U.S.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#69

Post by staticassertion »

kag0 wrote: post #20
nrmitchi wrote: post #11

> What happens to my compensation if I move? Brex pays by geographic market, so we will ultimately adjust an employee’s Total Compensation Value (TCV) if they relocate to where pay rates are different. However, for current Brex employees who relocate before Sep 1, 2021, Brex will not make any compensation adjustments until Sep 1, 2024 to help each of us manage through the unusual circumstances associated with COVID-1…

Can someone explain the rationale behind geographically based pay in remote-first companies? I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I don't know what aspects of the issue companies are actually looking at to decide that geo-based pay is the way to go.

If you were already bought into and budgeting for 4 years of an employee at price X, it seems opportunistic and irrational to then try to cut them to price Y due to an unexpected factor.

As some other CEOs have chimed in, I'll say that my relatively small startup (6 people, but growing) just pays people what they're valued at, regardless of location or business expenses. I budgeted for those salaries - if someone moved to a cheaper area I wouldn't cut their salaries because their location hasn't changed anything for me. Everyone makes enough to live in the bay area comfortably, which means they'll be just fine elsewhere.

Re: Remote First at Brex

#70

Post by staticassertion »

ryanSrich wrote: post #23
kag0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain the rationale behind geographically based pay in remote-first companies? I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I don't know what aspects of the issue companies are actually looking at to decide that geo-based pay is the way to go.

It's a relic, and a bad one. I run a remote-first, remote-only company and we pay everyone based on experience and merit. Not location. If you want to stretch $150k in San Francisco go for it. Good luck having to live with 3 other roommates. However, if you want to take that same $150k and live like a king in the middle of Kansas that's an option as well. Adjusting someones pay simply because they're logging onto the…

FWIW 150k is plenty to live comfortably, without a roommate, in SF. SF is expensive but not that expensive. Even a 4k 1br (rounding way up, especially these days where you can get a 1br for < 3k) would be 48k/year, and assuming half your money goes to taxes, you could swing it while still putting money away.
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