The Disinvitation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Disinvitation

#61

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 2:43 AM UTC

antjanus wrote: post #56

zarkov99 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it tragic that that stands out as objectionable?

it's tragic that people think merit-based promotions and hiring actually exist. Meritocracy is flawed and extremely biased -- because people that enforce meritocracy are biased. Martin himself shows himself to be a biased person which he shows time and time again on Twitter. What if he were to decide who got promoted or hired for companies? There are literally studies on this.

Speaking as a minority myself, if hiring based on assessed merit is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Re: The Disinvitation

#62

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 3:35 AM UTC

> The conference organizers are in breech of contract

“Breach”, and probably not. While Martin acknowledges there was no written agreement, he provides little reason to believe that whatever communication they had met the requirements for a contract.

He does provide, in arguing for breach of contract where he is the aggrieved party, a much better (but still far from complete) argument for fraud where attendees were the aggrieved party.

In addition to an actual contract, breach would depend on something he strongly implies did not occur, to wit, an actual disinvitation by the organizers. It's clear that his contact wanted Martin to voluntarily back out based on the conflict created by the threatened boycott by other speakers, and Martin seems to describe himself agreeing to do so to make things easy for his contact. That's a change by mutual agreement, not a breach.

> The speakers who refused to speak if I spoke are guilty of tortious interference.

Assuming the required relationship (which may be disputable), Martin seems to establish interference, but not the independently wrongful action that would make it tortious.

Also, this is cute:

> I promised him I would not mention his name or the name of the conference on line.

But then:

> So, this time, I’ll let the legal options rest. Instead, I’m offering a virtual free talk at 10:00 AM CDT, on September 21st, the first day of the conference.

So, you've pretty much guaranteed that the conference, and probably your contact since knowing the conference will make that not too hard for people to deduce, will be publicly identified online soon, even if not under your byline.

Re: The Disinvitation

#63

Post by spirobel » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 7:55 AM UTC

kova12 wrote: post #58

dang wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop posting unsubstantive comments.

How are they unsubstantive if article is no longer visible and title says "flagged" ?

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? This is unfortunately way too much of your comment feed.

The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Disinvitation

#64

Post by dgellow » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

antjanus wrote: post #56

zarkov99 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it tragic that that stands out as objectionable?

it's tragic that people think merit-based promotions and hiring actually exist. Meritocracy is flawed and extremely biased -- because people that enforce meritocracy are biased. Martin himself shows himself to be a biased person which he shows time and time again on Twitter. What if he were to decide who got promoted or hired for companies? There are literally studies on this.

Who isn't bias? That's what defines an individual personality. If we would remove everybody who expresses some biases you wouldn't have that much choice of people at the end.

The fact that people have bias cannot be the issue in itself, problems occur when they are ignored and not taken in account by systems.

For example a hiring process can take in account biases and have ways to correct for them, for example by avoiding to have one single interviewer having way more weight than another, by doing blind reviews, etc.

Re: The Disinvitation

#65

Post by zarkov99 » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 12:34 PM UTC

antjanus wrote: post #56

zarkov99 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it tragic that that stands out as objectionable?

it's tragic that people think merit-based promotions and hiring actually exist. Meritocracy is flawed and extremely biased -- because people that enforce meritocracy are biased. Martin himself shows himself to be a biased person which he shows time and time again on Twitter. What if he were to decide who got promoted or hired for companies? There are literally studies on this.

So what does exist? Oppression and power? And we should trust the people who believe that to fix the imbalances?

Re: The Disinvitation

#66

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 12:41 PM UTC

quantified wrote: post #37

I wouldn’t have cancelled the contract, we’re not getting anywhere with purity tests. We can appreciate what George Washington & Thomas Jefferson did AND disapprove of their slaveholding. Life is ambiguous and messy. The one rant I read indicates that he thinks the country was not founded on slavery and that Reconstruction was not thwarted, Jim Crow did not exist, federal redlining of Black neighborhoods until recent…

[deleted]

Re: The Disinvitation

#67

Post by antjanus » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 1:48 PM UTC

dgellow wrote: post #64

antjanus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's tragic that people think merit-based promotions and hiring actually exist. Meritocracy is flawed and extremely biased -- because people that enforce meritocracy are biased. Martin himself shows himself to be a biased person which he shows time and time again on Twitter. What if he were to decide who got promoted or hired for companies? There are literally studies on this.

Who isn't bias? That's what defines an individual personality. If we would remove everybody who expresses some biases you wouldn't have that much choice of people at the end. The fact that people have bias cannot be the issue in itself, problems occur when they are ignored and not taken in account by systems. For example a hiring process can take in account biases and have ways to correct for them, for example by avo…

so you're saying to avoid biases, we should have a diverse and inclusive set of interviewers that can counter each others' blind spots.

And that meritocracy on its own cannot work because everyone is biased in one way or another. Got it.

Re: The Disinvitation

#68

Post by antjanus » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #65

antjanus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's tragic that people think merit-based promotions and hiring actually exist. Meritocracy is flawed and extremely biased -- because people that enforce meritocracy are biased. Martin himself shows himself to be a biased person which he shows time and time again on Twitter. What if he were to decide who got promoted or hired for companies? There are literally studies on this.

So what does exist? Oppression and power? And we should trust the people who believe that to fix the imbalances?

I'd like to invite you to come up with a strategy to counter meritocracy bias to make it "fair" for everyone. What would your strategy be?

Re: The Disinvitation

#69

Post by dgellow » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

antjanus wrote: post #67

dgellow wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who isn't bias? That's what defines an individual personality. If we would remove everybody who expresses some biases you wouldn't have that much choice of people at the end. The fact that people have bias cannot be the issue in itself, problems occur when they are ignored and not taken in account by systems. For example a hiring process can take in account biases and have ways to correct for them, for example by avo…

so you're saying to avoid biases, we should have a diverse and inclusive set of interviewers that can counter each others' blind spots. And that meritocracy on its own cannot work because everyone is biased in one way or another. Got it.

I don't say the part about meritocracy, I don't believe that's a jump that makes sense, but the rest is correct, yes :)

I see meritocracy as an ideal we would like to be able to tend to, not something that has been achieved in the past or current time.

Re: The Disinvitation

#70

Post by rektide » Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

Terroristic response. Not doing it but basically the whole post is about how much might & shit he could reign down on those who dare ruin & cross him & the volunteer activities he was happy to do as a favor for a while.