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Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

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Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#61

Post by aphextron »

libertine wrote: post #48

I'm so sick of politics... I know it's a byproduct of democracy, but this behavior becoming widespread - or at least more noticeable/transparent/obvious. Even in a crises where scientist should be the shot callers, and regulators should be on their best game... no... They became tools of politicians. It's not only in the US. It's not just another "Trump thing". It's a worldwide phenomena. Every matter goes through th…

And now you understand that everything is politics. There is no avoiding it. The moment you begin to make any form of decision that affects more than yourself, you are engaging in a political act. Ignoring this fact and doing things without political discussion is what we call authoritarianism.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#62

Post by y04nn »

If we discover any issue with this vaccine in the future, this will be a total disaster, not only because of possible complications that vaccinated people may develop in the long term but more importantly because of the anti-vax and the fear of any vaccine people will have for the next pandemic.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#63

Post by latch »

logicchains wrote: post #29
querez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be said of all required vaccines, though, and the same counter-arguments apply: One individual's freedom to not vaccine hurts other people's right to health (e.g. via reduced herd immunity which hurts people who cannot get vaccinated) and should thus take a backseat.

>This could be said of all required vaccines, though, and the same counter-arguments apply: One individual's freedom to not vaccine hurts other people's right to health (e.g. via reduced herd immunity which hurts people who cannot get vaccinated) and should thus take a backseat. The whole point of rights is that they're non-conditional. That's why most western countries currently don't do any forced vaccinations (alt…

This is absurd bordering on trolling. That isn't the "whole point of rights" (maybe this is what you believe, but that's an opinion, don't present it as a fact). At best, a right is a societal norm. They're almost always conditional and complex - if for no other reason than, without conditions, some rights cannot co-exist.

A strong commitment to human rights doesn't mean rights are non-conditional, so you're moving the goalpost to make a slippery slope argument. Anyways, laws are what can stop these things from happening. Yes, some laws go hand-in-hand with human(e.g. universal suffrage), some don't (e.g, conflicts of interest laws)

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#64

Post by throwaway815190 »

The narrative about COVID is starting to fall apart and these cynical people want to make as much money as they can before it falls apart completely.

CDC admits only 6% of reported COVID-19 deaths were actually caused by COVID.[0]

[0]: https://t.co/W7Sxq4Pmos?amp=1

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#65

Post by rsynnott »

libertine wrote: post #48

I'm so sick of politics... I know it's a byproduct of democracy, but this behavior becoming widespread - or at least more noticeable/transparent/obvious. Even in a crises where scientist should be the shot callers, and regulators should be on their best game... no... They became tools of politicians. It's not only in the US. It's not just another "Trump thing". It's a worldwide phenomena. Every matter goes through th…

> It's not only in the US. It's not just another "Trump thing".

Eh, at least on vaccine approval, it... kind of is? The only cases I'm aware of are this one and the Russian one, and the Russian one was really more of a publicity exercise (they're 'approving' it, but only for very limited distribution, making it rather similar to a normal phase 3 in practice).

I think part of this is how the US govt is structured, rather than politics per se. It's particularly easy in the US for the executive to lean on government agencies; if nothing else it can get rid of heads of agencies without much fuss, whereas this would be anything from a major political scandal to just outright impossible in many developed countries. Also, of course, the executive is one person; in a parliamentary system this sort of leaning would require multiple people to make decisions that were, as Yes Minister put it, 'brave' (ie potentially career-ending).

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#66

Post by disgu »

aphextron wrote: post #32

I'm signing up for the Pfizer phase 3 trial today. I have every confidence in the world that the researchers involved know what they are doing and would never push something like this if it weren't safe. If I don't get the placebo (fingers crossed), I will be one of the first people in the world with an immunity against SARS-CoV-2. That's worth a slight risk in my opinion. I honestly don't think they can do this fast…

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy here but from what you write you really don't seem to understand the potential risks of medical trials or how they work. I'm not saying you should not participate but you seem a bit misinformed.

> the researchers involved know what they are doing and would never push something like this if it weren't safe

No, they do all the time. They do not know if it's safe. They don't have enough indication that it's unsafe. There's a huuuge difference. That's what the trials are for: To find out if they're safe and work. Both assertions can only be made after the trials.

> I will be one of the first people in the world with an immunity against SARS-CoV-2

Millions already are.

Just read the papers you'll sign carefully so you don't go into all of this while not being 100% informed.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#67

Post by andybak »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #47
andybak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"NOT at risk" is a bold overstatement. We can debate how much risk but it's dishonest to say "no risk"

Compared to an untested vaccine? You truly belive you can ensure the safety of a vaccine without multiple years of trials?

> Compared to an untested vaccine?

I didn't say anything about comparisons. I was pointing out that you were engaging in hyperbole.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#68

Post by [deleted] »

jonnypotty wrote: post #42
henrikschroder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're below 40 your risk of dying of the regular influenza is higher than the risk of dying of covid-19. If your fear of the flu doesn't motivate you to take the flu vaccine every year, rationally, you shouldn't want to take the covid-19 vaccine either.

You think taking the vaccine is just be to protect yourself? It's not.

[deleted]

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#69

Post by andybak »

jonnypotty wrote: post #42
henrikschroder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're below 40 your risk of dying of the regular influenza is higher than the risk of dying of covid-19. If your fear of the flu doesn't motivate you to take the flu vaccine every year, rationally, you shouldn't want to take the covid-19 vaccine either.

You think taking the vaccine is just be to protect yourself? It's not.

It might be worth elaborating on your point. I can think of multiple interpretations that differ significantly.

Re: Alarm as FDA willing to issue Covid-19 vaccine before stringent safety testing

#70

Post by andybak »

henrikschroder wrote: post #14
andybak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still get the feeling there's still a lot to discover about this disease. And some will quibble over the precise definitions of "vast" and "low" in that statement.

If you're below 40 your risk of dying of the regular influenza is higher than the risk of dying of covid-19. If your fear of the flu doesn't motivate you to take the flu vaccine every year, rationally, you shouldn't want to take the covid-19 vaccine either.

Please provide data to back this up. I keep hearing this and all the sources I've seen contradict it fairly strongly.
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