The Legend of GayBlade • Hacker News Board

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#61

Post by imesh » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 2:42 AM UTC

bhfasdhjgdgsuyv wrote: post #42

parsimo2010 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "queer" in the game's name probably means odd, not homosexual. As in the person holding the ball is the odd one, and everyone should try to hit them. That doesn't stop people from misinterpreting it, since queer mostly means homosexual or some other sexual minority. It's slightly more pessimistic to think that the game is teaching our kids to kill homosexuals vs. some undefined oddness.

Lol so when I was getting my ass beat in middle school for sounding a bit effeminate during a game of "smear the queer" it was just because I was "odd". That must be why the called me a faggot too.

In my experience the game was played by someone punting the ball in the air and the person chose to become the target by grabbing the ball. We used to rush to grab the ball, it was a way to prove your toughness, by how long you could last as the target.

I do not discount your experiences at all, homophobia was still prevalent in my elementary and middle school and I also graduated in a liberal state in 2008.

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#62

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 2:45 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #40

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who aren't familiar, Smear the Queer is a playground game in which one person has to keep a ball away from the rest of the group, who tries to tackle them. It's sort of like a cross between "reverse tag" and gridiron/rugby football. (The gay-bashing element is just a metaphor, you see.)

The "queer" in the game's name probably means odd, not homosexual. As in the person holding the ball is the odd one, and everyone should try to hit them. That doesn't stop people from misinterpreting it, since queer mostly means homosexual or some other sexual minority. It's slightly more pessimistic to think that the game is teaching our kids to kill homosexuals vs. some undefined oddness.

> It's slightly more pessimistic to think that the game is teaching our kids to kill homosexuals vs. some undefined oddness.

not by much, because even taken literally creating a game around the fact of beating up the odd member of a group isn't exactly what I'd consider a great pedagogical concept

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#63

Post by onionisafruit » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 2:46 AM UTC

djaque wrote: post #30

everdumb wrote: post #12

When I was a child, Smear the Queer was a game all the boys played. Fag was a commonly used slur. When I was in high school the state of California told gay couples to go fuck themselves. Societal progress is a wonderful thing to see.

Not sure how old you are, but even in 2010 when I was in high school our boy scout troop played smear the queer and the first time I learned the word gay was as an insult. Didn't really help with the whole growing up gay thing.

I played smear the queer as a kid and had no idea queer meant gay. That was a few decades before you played it though. I think I was in my twenties before I knew queer meant anything other than “unusual”. I even had a couple of gay friends who never let me in on it.

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#64

Post by geofft » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:07 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #40

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who aren't familiar, Smear the Queer is a playground game in which one person has to keep a ball away from the rest of the group, who tries to tackle them. It's sort of like a cross between "reverse tag" and gridiron/rugby football. (The gay-bashing element is just a metaphor, you see.)

The "queer" in the game's name probably means odd, not homosexual. As in the person holding the ball is the odd one, and everyone should try to hit them. That doesn't stop people from misinterpreting it, since queer mostly means homosexual or some other sexual minority. It's slightly more pessimistic to think that the game is teaching our kids to kill homosexuals vs. some undefined oddness.

What does "probably" mean here? Does it mean "Here is the evidence-based argument why this is more plausible than that," or does it mean "I would be happier believing this than that"?

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#65

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:11 AM UTC

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #26

everdumb wrote: post #12

When I was a child, Smear the Queer was a game all the boys played. Fag was a commonly used slur. When I was in high school the state of California told gay couples to go fuck themselves. Societal progress is a wonderful thing to see.

For those who aren't familiar, Smear the Queer is a playground game in which one person has to keep a ball away from the rest of the group, who tries to tackle them. It's sort of like a cross between "reverse tag" and gridiron/rugby football. (The gay-bashing element is just a metaphor, you see.)

This game has many, many regional names. I heard it called "smear the queer" but we usually called it other names.

It's semi-interesting, though, that the "queer" was the one with the ball.

It took serious guts to be the "queer" for any length of time - after all, it was you vs. everybody else trying to tackle you. The kids who spent the most time with the ball were the fastest, toughest kids. So "queer" was a slur but also, the "queer" was the fast/strong/brave one.

Of course, there are many regional variations. It sounds like in some places, there was no ball involved, and "smear the queer" was just a name for an ass-beating.

I detest this slur now, and I hate that I used to use words like that as jokes/insults. Today I would be fighting alongside my gay friends against folks using those words.

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#66

Post by devenblake » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:17 AM UTC

djaque wrote: post #30

everdumb wrote: post #12

When I was a child, Smear the Queer was a game all the boys played. Fag was a commonly used slur. When I was in high school the state of California told gay couples to go fuck themselves. Societal progress is a wonderful thing to see.

Not sure how old you are, but even in 2010 when I was in high school our boy scout troop played smear the queer and the first time I learned the word gay was as an insult. Didn't really help with the whole growing up gay thing.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a senior enrolled in a Maine high school right now and there's very little homophobia. In fact, a not-insignificant amount of the school is queer. Growing up I only ever heard "gay" used as an insult on-line. Times seem to have changed, and for the better!

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#67

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:18 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #40

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who aren't familiar, Smear the Queer is a playground game in which one person has to keep a ball away from the rest of the group, who tries to tackle them. It's sort of like a cross between "reverse tag" and gridiron/rugby football. (The gay-bashing element is just a metaphor, you see.)

The "queer" in the game's name probably means odd, not homosexual. As in the person holding the ball is the odd one, and everyone should try to hit them. That doesn't stop people from misinterpreting it, since queer mostly means homosexual or some other sexual minority. It's slightly more pessimistic to think that the game is teaching our kids to kill homosexuals vs. some undefined oddness.

Anecdotal, but even as kids in the early 80s we understood "queer" was "gay" and therefore "bad."

(I absolutely hate that this was ever the case! Wish I had a clue back then)

There was no literal gay element to the game (in our town) but it was still a very hateful name for the game. The message was clear: when you had the ball, you were "queer" and therefore the bad guy and so therefore everybody chased you.

That said, we typically called the game by other names. It had a different name in every town and neighborhood, it seemed. I think we only called it "smear the queer" when we were trying to explain it to kids from elsewhere... it was called "roughie-up" where we lived, but that was apparently hyperlocal, so if the kid was from out of town he might have known it as "smear the queer."

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#68

Post by rayiner » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:19 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #38

xref wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a great thing to see, California is described as some sort of lefty-socialist-liberal bastion today but like you said it was only 12 years ago they (unconstitutionally) voted in a ban on gay marriage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_...

California was also considered a lefty-socialist-liberal bastion 12 years ago.

Public opinion on same-sex marriage changed very quickly from 2008 to 2016. Obama opposed same sex marriage in 2008 and didn’t really support it until after the 2012 election.

And I'm not sure it's totally accurate to say that what happened was people coming around to "lefty liberalism." The nature of the debate changed quite significantly after 2005. First, it became clear to the public that sexual orientation was an immutable characteristic. When I was growing up in the 1990s, it was still common to hear it called a "lifestyle" implying it was a choice. Second, there was an increased focus on equal legal rights for committed same-sex couples. Appealing to neutral application of universal legal principles is usually a compelling message for even non-lefty Americans. Around the same time as Prop 8 was passed, a state Supreme Court decision legalized same-sex marriage in Iowa. Iowans aren't particularly lefty, but a slim plurality supported the decision within a year or two. Third, in the same timeframe a number of mainline Protestant churches began ordaining gay clergy. While the political influence of these denominations is less than in the past, they’re still a powerful force in the center of the political spectrum among middle age and older Americans.

The end result of all that was Obergefell which wasn't particularly lefty or liberal. Justice Kennedy's opinion was a paean to marriage as an ancient and essential social institution. Because marriage was fundamental, participation in it could not be denied to same-sex couples just because of the programming they were born with.

Of course, none of this would've happened without decades of tireless "lefty liberal" advocacy. But public opinion changed dramatically within a single decade, and wasn't accompanied a similarly large leftward shift in peoples' politics generally. So it's interesting to think about what drove those changes.

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#69

Post by acomjean » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:22 AM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #65

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who aren't familiar, Smear the Queer is a playground game in which one person has to keep a ball away from the rest of the group, who tries to tackle them. It's sort of like a cross between "reverse tag" and gridiron/rugby football. (The gay-bashing element is just a metaphor, you see.)

This game has many, many regional names. I heard it called "smear the queer" but we usually called it other names. It's semi-interesting, though, that the "queer" was the one with the ball. It took serious guts to be the "queer" for any length of time - after all, it was you vs. everybody else trying to tackle you. The kids who spent the most time with the ball were the fastest, toughest kids. So "queer" was a slur b…

In middlesex county massachusetts in the late 70s, early 80s we called it "kill the carrier". Rough game, I dislocated my elbow playing it. It was a wonder anyone picked up that ball.

Re: The Legend of GayBlade

#70

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 3:22 AM UTC

hnick wrote: post #57

bhfasdhjgdgsuyv wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably aren't explicitly homophobic, but it's disrespectful and a tiny bit homophobic to not adjust your language a tiny bit, because it's obviously negatively impactful to gay people (not everyone, but I know it is to me).

I agree but everyone has moments of emotional weakness where things come out without thinking. It becomes more about breaking a habit so it doesn't happen unconsciously. Or apologising if it does happen. It can take a moment to realise, my original post said "bad/lame" because the use of "lame" was another popular one that took over as supposedly less offensive than "gay", but it too has the capacity to offend those…

Keep trying and making progress. There are so many testimonials out there about what a positive difference can be made by avoiding the use of "gay", "lame", etc. as insults.