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UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

businessinsider.com

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Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#61

Post by iso1631 »

artoonie wrote: post #21
dheera wrote: post #18

On a related note, I don't understand the point of tips on UberEats. (a) I thought the whole point of these apps was to simplify things for the user. I just want to know how much I pay in total, upfront, as I'm selecting food. Include taxes and delivery fees in a big fat "this is what you will pay" display on the screen and I'll be a 10X happier user. Delivery apps were a great opportunity to axe the complexities of…

(b) you can change your tip afterward if your service was not as expected. Just like in a restaurant: maybe your default tip is 25%, but great service bumps that up, and bad service bumps it down. You go in expecting to pay 25%.

We bought a second car at the weekend, I phoned up my insurance company and asked them to put it on. They did so, and it was cheaper than the quote I'd got online - £180 for 9 months vs £290 for 12 months.

So I immediately tipped the person on the phone £45

How ridiculous does that seem?

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#62

Post by iso1631 »

ab_testing wrote: post #54
AlexandrB wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like Uber are trying to shoot themselves in the foot with all the cost squeezing and profit seeking at the same time they're in a fundamental fight defining what they are. I don't think they have a choice. UberEats is fundamentally unprofitable. If it was run profitably, the high(er) prices would drive a large portion of their customers away and into the arms of other "startups" willing to run at a loss or tow…

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

The only reason I could think of to use something like ubereats, deliveroo, justeat, etc would be if I wanted a non-pizza delivered while I was staying in a hotel in a strange city somewhere.

If I'm at home I'll look at the menu of my favourite indian/chineese/whatever place, phone them up, and they deliver it as they have done for decades.

I've spent two nights in a hotel since March, normally it's 70 a year. One night I ordered a dominos as I got back to the hotel just before 2300. The other night I ate out with a supplier.

Likewise with Uber, if I'm at home and not flying off somewhere, I'm not going to be ordering a taxi, either to get to the airport, or when I'm in a strange city on the other side of the planet.

I can see this is the golden age of takeaways and home-delivery (which basically means amazon or groceries), but I don't see it for takeaways.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#64

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

ab_testing wrote: post #54
AlexandrB wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like Uber are trying to shoot themselves in the foot with all the cost squeezing and profit seeking at the same time they're in a fundamental fight defining what they are. I don't think they have a choice. UberEats is fundamentally unprofitable. If it was run profitably, the high(er) prices would drive a large portion of their customers away and into the arms of other "startups" willing to run at a loss or tow…

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

Food delivery will probably never be profitable unless you're able to schedule food delivery days ahead... and utilize the same pathing algorithms used for regular deliveries (like UPS and Fedex).

There's a maximum amount of time someone will wait (1 hour) and the product degrades after it's created (cools off)

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#65

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

artoonie wrote: post #53
bluesign wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share one route uber underpaid by big margin? For the second part I agree, but without seeing outlier, maybe in some cases google couldn’t find the best route, compared to the app. PS: all this stats used Google Maps shortest path or best path?

https://imgur.com/v4bSD5S I was paid 1 mile, actual distance 3.5-4.0 miles. Previous versions of the app would use the first result returned by Google Directions API, which could have been best not shortest (I'm not sure, anyone know?). Newer version (pending app store review) does shortest always.

The problem is you used Uber Car, instead of Uber Airplane (please don't)

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#66

Post by Reedx »

ab_testing wrote: post #54
AlexandrB wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like Uber are trying to shoot themselves in the foot with all the cost squeezing and profit seeking at the same time they're in a fundamental fight defining what they are. I don't think they have a choice. UberEats is fundamentally unprofitable. If it was run profitably, the high(er) prices would drive a large portion of their customers away and into the arms of other "startups" willing to run at a loss or tow…

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

I'm guessing they're just trying to hold on until they can convert to robotic delivery. Then it'll be profitable. In the meantime they're preloading the platform, building brand recognition, etc.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#67

Post by cactus2093 »

supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0].

How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's not a very good protection! There are a lot of downsides, and drivers simply don't want it, but for some reason a lot of people feel the need to force this change through anyway.

Our current labor system, and its default assumption that tying yourself to a full-time job with a large company is the only way you deserve to have stability, is just very clearly showing its flaws here. It's not compatible with gig economy work, why can't we look for solutions that drivers would actually want, and that would help every other independent contractor? Things like improving overall safety nets, so that everyone has health coverage and is covered in the case of things like disabilities even if they don't work for a large company.

Almost every take I read on the pro-AB5 side of this argument seems more focused on punishing Uber the corporation for some perceived moral failing, than on actually helping the drivers. It's quite bizarre.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgoldstein/2020/08/19/wil...

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#68

Post by AgloeDreams »

cactus2093 wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0]. How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's n…

With extreme propaganda and marketing of anti-labor rights movements by the companies they work for, why would they?

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#69

Post by Analemma_ »

cactus2093 wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0]. How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's n…

Is there a more reliable source for that 17% number? The quoted figure comes from a poll by "TheRideshareGuy", which is apparently a magazine for rideshare drivers giving tips on maximizing earnings, and so whose entire existence is predicated on the rideshare business remaining as it is. So as a source for a question like this, it's basically worthless.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#70

Post by artoonie »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #65
artoonie wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://imgur.com/v4bSD5S I was paid 1 mile, actual distance 3.5-4.0 miles. Previous versions of the app would use the first result returned by Google Directions API, which could have been best not shortest (I'm not sure, anyone know?). Newer version (pending app store review) does shortest always.

The problem is you used Uber Car, instead of Uber Airplane (please don't)

I just got a lease on an UberCopter. Runways are too far from restaurants. Hope it works out for me!
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