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The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

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Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#61

Post by exolymph »

scatters wrote: post #19
notauser wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diplomatic buildings have often been strong points designed to keep staff safe in uncertain times. This is true even in safer locations; the new US embassy in London is very much a fort although the defensive features (like the water-filled moat/pond, and bollards hidden in the hedges) are well integrated into the landscaping. The new site is probably considerably harder to assault than their old building, even thoug…

Some people are unable to recognize great architecture when they see it. Saarinen's building is applauded as one of the finest modernist structures in Britain and is rightly Grade II listed. https://www.economist.com/prospero/2017/09/26/the-american-e...

It is telling that you had to reference the building's bona fides to make your argument. And I _like_ brutalism!

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#62

Post by nxc18 »

viewbase wrote: post #45

So... nobody is going to ask why is the French Army in Africa?

The Economist has lots of coverage of the Sahel and the ongoing developments in Mali. It’s one of the few mainstream publications with significant coverage of that issue available in the US.

They’ve got a bunch of podcasts that largely cover the content of their articles, with the voices of reporters and occasionally primary source recordings mixed in, all available for free. Worth checking out for sure.

Now I’m wondering, does anyone else have good resources for coverage of the Sahel or other international interests outside the US’s 24-hour news cycle?

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#63

Post by Rexxar »

lgeorget wrote: post #60
fock wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's also the Francs CFA, meaning that these countries non-shadow economy is - in effect - still managed by France...

What do you mean by "managed" exactly?

I don't know what he means exactly but the main consequence is that the Franc CFA is pegged to the Euro. It has a big impact but I wouldn't call this "managing their economy".

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#64

Post by lgeorget »

Rexxar wrote: post #63
lgeorget wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "managed" exactly?

I don't know what he means exactly but the main consequence is that the Franc CFA is pegged to the Euro. It has a big impact but I wouldn't call this "managing their economy".

I would say it has its advantages and issues but in any case, it's not being imposed on any country. Many have chosen not to use it.

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#65

Post by hnarn »

roenxi wrote: post #5

> While the design ... appears anachronistic Nothing anachronistic about it; this is likely an optimal design when considering how to maximise the effective coverage of guns. This is good design for a fortification that is meant to be held. This design is relatively quite modern and is a direct response to the introduction of artillery to warfare. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gunpowder#Changes_t... .…

> Nothing anachronistic about it; this is likely an optimal design when considering how to maximise the effective coverage of guns.

I guess what makes it slightly anachronistic is that these "pointy" designs look like they are somehow designed with fluid or aero-dynamics in mind, and back in the days I guess they were when an amassing army would literally try and storm the walls. In that situation, you want the opposing army to be forced against a point rather than a flat wall so that every flat wall they attack, they are flanked by another one right next to it, creating a "kill zone".

While I'm sure the design is by no means "useless" by today's standards, I have to wonder if the original intent of the design makes sense in an era of air strikes and tanks. But then again, if you're up against a less advanced adversary, maybe "storming the gates" is literally what they'll be forced to attempt.

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#66

Post by hackermailman »

WilTimSon wrote: post #38

How practical are these against modern weapons? Couldn't some modern explosives just destroy a fortress wall, thus rendering its inherent purpose of withstanding a siege impossible? It's an interesting sight and architecturally curious but I'm wondering what the purpose of such an effort is.

ISIS whenever they launched attacks in Syria or Iraq against some army base or prison structure they filmed it with drones and put it on youtube. Their strategy was multiple suicide trucks or cars filled with explosives (some were decoy vehicles) that had to survive the speeding attack to the walls to blow themselves up for a breach where the foot soldiers could come in and raid, so these were mad max looking vehicles covered in makeshift armor, coming in from all directions hoping to exploit a blind spot in the structure's defenses. So in other words having no blind spots seems like the best defense against that kind of enemy or one that tries and lobs mortars at you while you have clear sight of them doing so.

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#67

Post by hackermailman »

nxc18 wrote: post #62
viewbase wrote: post #45

So... nobody is going to ask why is the French Army in Africa?

The Economist has lots of coverage of the Sahel and the ongoing developments in Mali. It’s one of the few mainstream publications with significant coverage of that issue available in the US. They’ve got a bunch of podcasts that largely cover the content of their articles, with the voices of reporters and occasionally primary source recordings mixed in, all available for free. Worth checking out for sure. Now I’m wond…

google scholar https://academic.oup.com/fpa/article-abstract/14/1/1/2625523... is one such example or https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03066150.2018.1... 'Why do pastoralists in Mali join jihadist groups? A political ecological explanation' on the right side dozens more articles about the political and economic state of Mali and surrounding areas

type those doi numbers into sci-hub to read them, also this is the 'real' economist: https://academic.oup.com/ej like their study on mandatory conscription and criminal behavior afterwards https://academic.oup.com/ej/article/129/622/2522/5490322?sea... when released from the military these groups find no upwards mobility, so use their skills for crime.

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#69

Post by mbo »

chrisseaton wrote: post #35
slim wrote: post #12

On the same vein, US embassy in Tunis is closer to a fortification than to a diplomatic building. It even has a turret. It seems that other US embassies around the world became fortifications after 2001.

It’s a shame that a diplomatic mission of such a close friend needs to be armoured like this in London.

Meanwhile the US Embassy in Canberra, Australia is a 18th century Georgian style colonial townhouse.

Photo: https://au.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/canberra/

Re: The French Army Is Building Renaissance-Style Fortresses in Africa

#70

Post by rangibaby »

WilTimSon wrote: post #38

How practical are these against modern weapons? Couldn't some modern explosives just destroy a fortress wall, thus rendering its inherent purpose of withstanding a siege impossible? It's an interesting sight and architecturally curious but I'm wondering what the purpose of such an effort is.

No, it's still perfectly possible to build a fortification impervious to most or all firepower. What changed in WWII is it became possible for the entire enemy army to simply drive and fly past your fortresses; the Maginot Line is an infamous example. Against an enemy without armor or aircraft, a bastion like the one from the article is an appropriate defense.
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