A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game • Hacker News Board

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#61

Post by pixelbath » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:22 PM UTC

kaishin wrote: post #57

pixelbath wrote: post #47

As a designer, these pieces come off to me as whiny. I have a difficult time picturing why a designer would sit there angry at a company for crowdsourcing a design. Some 14-year-old designer is not cheapening the work we do by submitting logos for free to a bunch of companies hoping to get exposure. Out-of-work designers are not taking all the other freelance jobs because they decided to do some blog layouts at $50 a…

If you, as a designer, truly feel the work you are doing is better than a design competition, then don't submit your work to a design competition. If you're really that good, freelancers offering services for cheap, near-free, or even free shouldn't bother you at all << This is exactly why I wrote the article. You guys are talking money, I am talking ethics.

Fair enough, but I do think it's pretty presumptuous of you to speak for an entire industry. I do not think it is unethical, as long as the terms are clearly laid out beforehand.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#62

Post by kaishin » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:29 PM UTC

pixelbath wrote: post #53

kaishin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't meant to threaten anyone in my article. It's just a way to draw attention to the seriousness of the matter. As a matter of fact I couldn't care less if there are any people who enter the contest. They are amateurs and and they will stay so until they take their profession more seriously.

You don't care at all if anyone enters the contest, yet felt the need to write this incendiary piece that calls on all designers (which you now deride as "amateur") not to enter this contest? You then further go on to suggest that an entrant's credibility/integrity would be compromised by doing so. So, which is it?

What I said reflects solely my opinion on the people who enter the contest. As far as I am concerned, anyone who takes UI design seriously wouldn't bother doing so... Again, I am not expecting you to agree.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#63

Post by kaishin » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

pixelbath wrote: post #61

kaishin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you, as a designer, truly feel the work you are doing is better than a design competition, then don't submit your work to a design competition. If you're really that good, freelancers offering services for cheap, near-free, or even free shouldn't bother you at all << This is exactly why I wrote the article. You guys are talking money, I am talking ethics.

Fair enough, but I do think it's pretty presumptuous of you to speak for an entire industry. I do not think it is unethical, as long as the terms are clearly laid out beforehand.

Sure, I might have gone overboard, but the basic idea is still the same: That thing needs serious design thinking, not patchwork.

I consider it unethical for a company to throw a smokescreen instead of solving the real problem. And my piece was all about shedding some light on this.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#64

Post by ThomPete » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

mcritz wrote: post #48

ThomPete wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to know the guys who designed Skype for Mac. And by no metrics did they simply weld it on at the end. There are many many many factors involved in why Skype looks like it do and works like it does, but treating the design as something to be welded on at the end ain't one of them nor is not having a process.

If Skype felt strongly in the design process they wouldn’t be asking for design consultation after the fact, right?

If you know how many big organizations work, you would know that it doesn't matter.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#65

Post by alsomike » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:42 PM UTC

As a designer, I'm not very concerned about spec work. The wide availability of cheap desktop publishing software could have made design as a profession vanish because it gave people the ability to do it themselves.

But that didn't happen. Instead, people did try it themselves and the market was flooded with extremely poor design. Before, not having a logo at all was the floor, the absolute minimum of branding. But after DTP, the floor was raised - having a poorly-designed logo that you did yourself was the new minimum. Today, crowdsourced logo that you paid $300 for is rapidly becoming the new minimum.

Nothing changes for designers, because there is no ceiling. Thinking of design in the very narrow, branding sense: it cannot be commodified, because whenever the minimum level is raised, it becomes ubiquitous and generic, and that creates the new zero point. Designers get paid to design things to stand out from what's ubiquitous, whatever that happens to be at the time.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#66

Post by metageek » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 7:48 PM UTC

kaishin wrote: post #46

Terretta wrote: post #31

From the article: > There is no way in hell any company would launch an engineering or accounting competition. Ahem: http://www.netflixprize.com/

Everyone seems to be pointing in the article to the Netflix prize, but hey, don't take my phrase word for word. That's actually an exception that confirms the rule... What I meant is that spec work in design is being tolerated by both companies and designers more than any other field...

>don't take my phrase word for word

Say what you mean.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#67

Post by panacea » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 8:06 PM UTC

larrik wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who thinks there's way too much similarity between the the RIAA's "Save the artists" screeching, and the "design industry's" "Save the artists" screeching? Your existing business model is disappearing, and your cartel isn't going to stop it. Sucks for you. (BTW, my wife is a graphic designer, so make of that what you will)

Do you believe papering over the poorly received GUI change by suggesting "anyone have any better ideas?" as a PR exercise is a bold new future in sourcing design work?

To me it looks like fail piled on top of fail.

If Skype manages to get a successful new GUI out of crowdsourcing then your argument might demonstrate some validity.

Your comparison is pretty shite. The RIAA is trying to maintain a cartel of middle-man promotional leverage. A call by designers to designers to not debase your professional leverage by giving your skills away for free is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#68

Post by gridspy » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 8:25 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #58

raganwald wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I hope this actually reinforces the point I made. If it looks to me like this did not take place, it is because I obviously don't understand the forces and constraints upon the solution. Perhaps I don't fully understand the problem they are trying to solve. If they did an excellent job, then they knew something that is not obvious from looking at the design competition, which is why I suggest that being involved…

Well let me give you a pointer on what and for who they are solving problems. I think the numbers are something along the lines of this: 90% of users on Skype don't have much more than 5 contacts in their contact list. 95% of all messages are. "Can I call you?"

Now THAT is an enlightening comment.

Another great example of Power User (us) vs 'The General Public'

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#69

Post by michaelbuckbee » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 8:27 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #58

raganwald wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I hope this actually reinforces the point I made. If it looks to me like this did not take place, it is because I obviously don't understand the forces and constraints upon the solution. Perhaps I don't fully understand the problem they are trying to solve. If they did an excellent job, then they knew something that is not obvious from looking at the design competition, which is why I suggest that being involved…

Well let me give you a pointer on what and for who they are solving problems. I think the numbers are something along the lines of this: 90% of users on Skype don't have much more than 5 contacts in their contact list. 95% of all messages are. "Can I call you?"

That's really interesting and speaks to some of the issues with having a "Screenshot" redesign contest.

If 95% of all messages are "Can I call you?" it seems like Skype should change around the default behavior for starting and acknowledging an incoming call. The ability for someone else to interact with my computer and make it suddenly start making noise "ringing" is a skeumorphism from when there weren't any other modes of communication available.

I will say that one thing the new Skype does that I'm sure benefits many users is the fact that the new Skype no longer loses windows (the video, the chat, contacts) behind other application. This is something that is addressed (maybe brutally) by the new version, but I think is still an improvement for the vast majority of users.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#70

Post by mcritz » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #64

mcritz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Skype felt strongly in the design process they wouldn’t be asking for design consultation after the fact, right?

If you know how many big organizations work, you would know that it doesn't matter.

A clever point to make. Especially since it could mean two things.