Live data from Hacker News

Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

gottabemobile.com

61–70 of 81 posts

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#61
post #41
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't really have a project, just curiousity...

I certainly intend to drop him an email and see if he's willing to share his stuff with an interested compsci undergrad. It's always worth asking - he's probably just doing it for metrics.

Let us know what happens please, I'm also interested.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#62
post #9

> Can Predator be used to stabilize and navigate a Quadcopter? > That is not straightforward. anyone know why not?

There are much easier existing algorithms that are currently used by, for example, the Parrot AR Drone so using this for that would not be optimal.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on how well the computational load can be reduced to hardware small systems could provide for head mounted tracking systems He's clearly developing it on his laptop with a shitty webcam. That's why this is amazing. Screw robotic manufacturing, this is for my phone.

Phone != Laptop. It says he's running on a "Intel Core 2 Duo CPU 2.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM" according to his website. As a good rule of thumb, computer vision runs about an order of magnitude slower (10x) on a phone (like an iPhone) than on a desktop/laptop. Also - a crappy webcam actually makes things computationally easier because there's less data to deal with. In a lot of computer vision algorithms the first step is to t…

That 'first step' is so dangerous its mind blowing. One thing that is seriously holding academic CV back is datasets made for slow computers. Eyes take advantage of every possible input and the idea that you should start your CV task by throwing away data to make it 'easier' is so dumb its laughable. While I admit industry demands speed, if you have the luxury of doing pure research today and you're using black and white images you're not even wrong.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#64

Every time something like this comes out, I feel us taking a step away from "video camera mounted on a robot where the eyes should be" and a step toward real perception. I always wonder though, if a computer can one day recognize all different types of hands, could it draw a new one?

To answer your question you can watch this presentation by Prof Hinton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyzOUbkUf3M

He shows how he trained a restricted bolzmann machine to recognize handwritten numbers and how he can run it in reverse as a generative model, in effect the machine 'dreams' about all kinds of numbers that it's not been trained on but nonetheless makes up properly formed legible digits.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on how well the computational load can be reduced to hardware small systems could provide for head mounted tracking systems He's clearly developing it on his laptop with a shitty webcam. That's why this is amazing. Screw robotic manufacturing, this is for my phone.

Phone != Laptop. It says he's running on a "Intel Core 2 Duo CPU 2.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM" according to his website. As a good rule of thumb, computer vision runs about an order of magnitude slower (10x) on a phone (like an iPhone) than on a desktop/laptop. Also - a crappy webcam actually makes things computationally easier because there's less data to deal with. In a lot of computer vision algorithms the first step is to t…

> Phone != Laptop

Wait a year or two and phones will be as powerful as today's laptop.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#66
post #20
post #10

This is massively ground breaking. You'll get it if you've used motion tracking on several game interfaces and had to make perfectly white backgrounds with bright lights to make it work. This is incredibly accurate - really game changing stuff.

Keep in mind that there's no report of the processing power required to do this in the video. It very well could be an algorithm that is extremely accurate, but at the expense of many CPU cycles. While it's obvious, remember that for use in games, you have to perform the detection and run the game in realtime. Whether or not this can be done with current hardware is what I'm interested in.

Yesterday I bodged together something that's maybe half as good by gluing various OpenCV components together with numpy, and that runs at 15fps on an Atom netbook. I get the impression that this is just a lot more clever with the algorithms it uses, rather than specifically relying on the CPU grunt.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#67
post #40
post #3

Technical details here, with links to relevant papers at the bottom. http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/tld.html

Unfortunately you cannot download the source code, the link is disabled. And the GPL license he says he is using requires that the source code must be available for download without any restrictions like "send me an email" or "create an acount". Edit: I sent him an email :)

The GPL says nothing of the sort. Besides which, it's his code. He's not bound by the GPL.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#68
post #10

This is massively ground breaking. You'll get it if you've used motion tracking on several game interfaces and had to make perfectly white backgrounds with bright lights to make it work. This is incredibly accurate - really game changing stuff.

>This is massively ground breaking. Sounds like you're used to bad algorithms. I think there is a serious disconnect between the state of the art in computer vision and what's used in industry. The demo was cool, but the techniques are not that revolutionary. From a cursory glance through the papers, it is basically AdaBoost (for detection) and Lucas-Kanade (for tracking), with a few extensions. Not to discount the g…

agreed, about the disconnect between state of the art and industry application of CV.

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#69
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is massively ground breaking. Sounds like you're used to bad algorithms. I think there is a serious disconnect between the state of the art in computer vision and what's used in industry. The demo was cool, but the techniques are not that revolutionary. From a cursory glance through the papers, it is basically AdaBoost (for detection) and Lucas-Kanade (for tracking), with a few extensions. Not to discount the g…

since you're familiar with the topic, does this look lightweight enough for say, mobile applications, or does it require massive processing power?

According to his website [1] for this, he says that "TLD has been tested using standard hardware: webcam, Intel Core 2 Duo CPU 2.4 GHz, 2 GB RAM, no GPU processing is used and runs in a single thread. The demands of the algorithm depend on required accuracy of the algorithm. Implementation for mobile devices is feasible." in response to "What kind of hardware it was running on?"

So, according to him, it is lightweight enough to run on mobile devices. I'd imagine there are also several optimizations that can be done (leveraging multi-core chips or GPUs, for instance) to make the performance significantly better than the prototype he's demonstrating now. Also, taking into account Moore's Law, we may not be able to run this on today's mobile devices, but surely could on tomorrow's. Given that research is generally a few years ahead of industry, I would expect that, by the time this would come to market, the devices will be more than capable.

[1]: http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/Z.Kalal/tld.html

Re: Predator Object Tracking Algorithm

#70
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that there's no report of the processing power required to do this in the video. It very well could be an algorithm that is extremely accurate, but at the expense of many CPU cycles. While it's obvious, remember that for use in games, you have to perform the detection and run the game in realtime. Whether or not this can be done with current hardware is what I'm interested in.

On the website he claims it's a fairly standard dual core setup and you can see the number of frames per second in the video. I noticed at one point it was staying around 15fps. It may not work at this point for an FPS (Especially because it would have to be done in conjunction with graphics and other game-related processes), but it would likely be fine with other less fast-paced games.

At least some of the processing could also be off-loaded to an accessory device. How much work is the Kinect doing vs. the actual 360?
Post reply on HN