Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment • Hacker News Board

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#61

Post by silisili » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:50 PM UTC

roamerz wrote: post #45

ironman1478 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority didn't vote for this government. We do not deserve this.

That is by design. I wish our state (Oregon) was of similar design so that all interests are represented. As it is now the populous centers, mostly Portland and Eugene, dictate their values to the rest of the state.

I've met two 40-50 something ex-Oregoners who've said the same thing. They were extremely libertarian, and truly unlike anyone I'd met before. Almost like they came from some foreign(to me) culture. Both complained about how the population influx of Portland ruined the state, whatever that means, and both left looking for new adventures. I'm really curious what Oregon in the 70's-80's was like. The way they described it almost reminds me of Appalachian culture.

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#62

Post by paulmd » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

roamerz wrote: post #45

ironman1478 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority didn't vote for this government. We do not deserve this.

That is by design. I wish our state (Oregon) was of similar design so that all interests are represented. As it is now the populous centers, mostly Portland and Eugene, dictate their values to the rest of the state.

Rural areas are already heavily overrepresented in the american system. We certainly don't need to put the thumb on the scale further.

The ultimate problem is that "the rest of the state" (for virtually all states) is empty, hardly anybody lives there, and letting a minority override the will of everybody else is tyranny of the minority.

Taken to the extreme, this is ultimately what killed South Africa and Rhodesia and other countries - a relatively small minority imposing their will on the majority, things getting worse and worse with no recourse for the people whose lives were actually affected until things boiled over.

At its core, this is ultimately an argument for anti-democratic principles.

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#63

Post by newacct583 » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

roamerz wrote: post #45

ironman1478 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority didn't vote for this government. We do not deserve this.

That is by design. I wish our state (Oregon) was of similar design so that all interests are represented. As it is now the populous centers, mostly Portland and Eugene, dictate their values to the rest of the state.

Do you have examples of state level legislating in Oregon that you think needs to be changed? The big right-wing bugaboos in the PNW tend to be about federal policy (c.f. land use regulation), and the most impactful progressive laws tend to be at the city government level (Portland's $15 minimum wage, say).

I mean... what exactly are you complaining about? The straw ban?

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#64

Post by salmon30salmon » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

syspec wrote: post #53

ethanwillis wrote: post #2

Our government has failed in their response at local, state, and federal levels. The other thing we're going to be seeing soon is that these Unemployment programs have failed to do what they're ordained to do. This is an anecdote, but my brother was furloughed and has been waiting on any money (including the first stimulus) for literally months

The fact that this is not discussed more, or that congress and the president have already "moved on" is so frustrating. The president should be making distributing this aid, and fixing the unemployment benefits mess his priority for these people. Instead he's doing a photo op with cans of beans in the Oval Office, and another photo op down the street with a bible he holds like an alien artifact

Trump messed up a ton in this crises, and has a lot to answer for. This is not one of them.

Unemployment is almost all within the remit of the individual states. The government approved additional payments to each state, but the state government is responsible for dispersing and managing the unemployment system.

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#65

Post by salmon30salmon » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:54 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #37

ethanwillis wrote: post #2

Our government has failed in their response at local, state, and federal levels. The other thing we're going to be seeing soon is that these Unemployment programs have failed to do what they're ordained to do. This is an anecdote, but my brother was furloughed and has been waiting on any money (including the first stimulus) for literally months

> any money (including the first stimulus) for literally months I got mine almost immediately. What is the difference between me and your brother, I don't understand.

Do you live in the same state? That is probably the difference :)

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#66

Post by saint_abroad » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:56 PM UTC

imchillyb wrote: post #40

varbhat wrote: post #32

Can UBI(Universal Basic Income) scheme help to overcome Unemployment crisis ?

> Can UBI scheme help to overcome Unemployment crisis ? @varbhat You realize that UBI requires monies, right? The US Federal government, and most states, are bankrupt. There is no money for this years bills. There was no money for last years bills, and we keep borrowing at exorbitant interest rates. Our deficit (shortfall for this year) is -more than- 2.7 trillion dollars. Our debt (shortfall for previous years) is -…

> You realize that UBI requires monies, right?

Like the $1.5trillion tax cut that had "no major impact on businesses' capital investment"?

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/1-5-trillion-tax-cu...

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#67

Post by R0b0t1 » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #22

kiplkipl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the following theory: Most trading volume is algorithmic, so it only takes a small number of real humans doing unusual trading activity for markets to move. I've phrased it like this because I don't have expertise.

The theory's going around, but it doesn't ultimately make much sense. Algorithmic trading is still set up and managed by humans on a day-to-day basis, so it can't by itself explain persistent market highs.

If people defer to the algorithm instead of sanity checking it the explanation works, but you're relying on some willful ignorance on part of the traders. Or perhaps massive disconnect from reality.

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#68

Post by kwhitefoot » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

imchillyb wrote: post #40

varbhat wrote: post #32

Can UBI(Universal Basic Income) scheme help to overcome Unemployment crisis ?

> Can UBI scheme help to overcome Unemployment crisis ? @varbhat You realize that UBI requires monies, right? The US Federal government, and most states, are bankrupt. There is no money for this years bills. There was no money for last years bills, and we keep borrowing at exorbitant interest rates. Our deficit (shortfall for this year) is -more than- 2.7 trillion dollars. Our debt (shortfall for previous years) is -…

> Where the hell is anyone getting monies for UBI?!?!?!

In times of crisis like this you just print it and claw it back through higher tax rates .

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#69

Post by ChrisLomont » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

ironman1478 wrote: post #33

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #31

"Government doesn't work. Elect us and we'll prove it!" --One of the two major political parties in the US. We get the government we voted for, so I guess that's the one we deserve.

The majority didn't vote for this government. We do not deserve this.

Majority vote was not the deciding criteria, known to all well before the election. So this is an odd complaint - that somehow the majority needs to decide.

Also, the majority didn't vote for the Democrats either. Of those who voted, 48% voted D, 46% voted R, 3% voted Johnson, 1% voted Stein, misc voted to others.

So would a D win also have been somehow not deserved because they didn't get a majority?

And this is only of those who voted, which is only 55% of eligible voters. So D (and R) both got ~25% of the eligible vote. Some of this is because many people were disgusted by both parties. Trump and Hillary were the two worst Presidential candidates in history, as measured by unfavorability ratings [1]. Had the Dems run anyone with a somewhat normal rating, they would have likely trounced Trump.

We set up some rules that were not entirely unreasonable, and enough people did vote for the outcome that we got that the US does indeed deserve this. And both parties ran record level disliked candidates, so what did you expect would happen?

[1] "Among U.S. adults, Clinton now has a 56% unfavorability rating, while Trump had 63%.

And with registered voters, the two are basically tied: Clinton has 59% unfavorability and Trump has 60%."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016...

Re: Another 1.3M Americans File for Unemployment

#70

Post by ninkendo » Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

roamerz wrote: post #45

ironman1478 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority didn't vote for this government. We do not deserve this.

That is by design. I wish our state (Oregon) was of similar design so that all interests are represented. As it is now the populous centers, mostly Portland and Eugene, dictate their values to the rest of the state.

The populous centers have more people, so it makes sense that they have more say.

Moreover, why does people's location on a 2d grid matter at all for grouping people under representatives? Why not the first letter of their surname? Their age? Maybe the altitude of their home? Seems just as arbitrary.