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Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

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Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#61
post #49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chewing tobacco is also disgusting and possibly dumb (because it causes mouth cancer), but it is not illegal. Pot is though. That's my problem with the anti-drug tirade: Nicotine is a drug and is not illegal, but THC is also a drug and is illegal. (I should probably note that I've never smoked pot.)

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not. The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana. So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

By some estimates, marijuana is the largest cash crop in the US. It's very much a local industry. (You probably don't have people in your neighborhood growing tobacco, but you almost certainly have people growing marijuana.)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=2735017&page=1

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#62
The comments here are interesting. I think some people get upset as soon as they hear the name of an illegal drug, and instantly get ultra-defensive. You'd think people that claim to be among the most intelligent wouldn't immediately make such an emotional judgment. After all, when is the government ever right about anything? What they consider legal or illegal should not affect your judgment; 50 years ago it was essentially illegal to be black.

Anyway, if you read the article and substitute "coffee" for "marijuanna", I don't think anyone would be upset. If you are against "chemical help", why would you care about the current US legal status of the drug?

FWIW, I don't smoke pot, but I do drink a lot of caffeine. You could say that I'm a drug addict, and that's fine with me.

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#63
post #49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chewing tobacco is also disgusting and possibly dumb (because it causes mouth cancer), but it is not illegal. Pot is though. That's my problem with the anti-drug tirade: Nicotine is a drug and is not illegal, but THC is also a drug and is illegal. (I should probably note that I've never smoked pot.)

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not. The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana. So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

That's correct, but we are now in a hypocritical situation. We can't say "history made Nicotine legal, but let's pretend that THC is illegal for good reasons". Yes, there may be good reasons for an individual to not smoke pot, but that doesn't mean there are good reasons for keeping it illegal.

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#64

Before anyone starts taking this guy seriously, consider the impact that drug use could have on your life in terms of the social effects rather than the drug itself. Being arrested for possession (or, worse, dealing) could invalidate you from easy worldwide travel (merely having been arrested - let alone charged - invalidates you from many visa waiver programs), numerous professions, and delay certain opportunities.…

During high school, I worked with a guy who loved weed. Today, he has a type of skin cancer that has been traced to pot use. He is currently losing his fight with cancer.

Was he a transplant recipient or did he have AIDS? That seems to be the underlying issue (see http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291735,00.html). In either case, I suppose I would strongly recommend avoiding marijuana.

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#65
post #49
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chewing tobacco is also disgusting and possibly dumb (because it causes mouth cancer), but it is not illegal. Pot is though. That's my problem with the anti-drug tirade: Nicotine is a drug and is not illegal, but THC is also a drug and is illegal. (I should probably note that I've never smoked pot.)

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not. The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana. So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

> Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not.

You are kidding, right? Marijuana cultivation is one of the largest cash crops in the US (there is some question as to whether or not it is the largest, but there is no disputing the fact that it is in the top five.)

> The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana.

The US was built with money from tobacco, sugar, and slavery. Not really a great mix for us to be crowing about. BTW, when you see period documents that talk about "hemp" and how all colonial settlers should be encouraged to grow this valuable crop you are reading an exhortation from the government to grow marijuana (we don't grow the same varietals now, but it is the same plant...)

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#67
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let me guess edw519, you probably...* You guess wrong, josefresco. But it doesn't really matter anyway because I never "advertised" my habits to the world. This guy did. Just slightly ignorant as I pointed out above. Ignorant I can live with. But this was also irresponsible. This is hacker news, where people post and learn and share together about doing difficult and exciting work. I realize that OP had no idea wher…

You guess wrong, josefresco. You've never had a cup of coffee or tea, or a soda? Yeah right.

No. Beer yes. But coffee, tea, or soda, why bother?

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#68
post #61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not. The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana. So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

By some estimates, marijuana is the largest cash crop in the US. It's very much a local industry. (You probably don't have people in your neighborhood growing tobacco, but you almost certainly have people growing marijuana.) http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=2735017&page=1

Perhaps I should clarify then? Tobacco farmers goes back generations and make up a significant part of the traditional economy. They are taxed heavily and contribute a lot to the local and national economies. In general, marijuana farming goes back about generation, is not taxed (for obvious reasons) and very few people who grow marijuana really on it for there sole income. Enough of it is imported so that it is not really seen as 'American.' Maybe I'm biased, being from Virginia and having friends and associated who are small time tobacco farmers (and are nothing like the faceless monsters you see on anti-smoking adds,) But the relationship of tobacco to the economy, and the relation of marijuana to the economy are different, both in function and in perception (which is what really matters.)

BTW, your link is fixed. ------------------------

Edit: That article emphasized my point.

Which isn't that one is good or the other is bad, but the relationship of either to our economy is different. While production of marijuana is increasing, most of it is controlled and distributed by groups that are considered foreign, like the Mexican mob for example. In fact, a great deal of it is grown by recent immigrants whose families are being held hostage in their home countries.

Needless to say this could change in light of legalization, but it's current stature is what plays a key role right now. As it stands, the people who get rich off of marijuana aren't Americans.

So while legalization of Marijuana may benefit society monetarily, there is no particular interest group that stands to get rich or on which the government already depends. This was even more true at the time of the original criminalization. It's a matter of why, not whether. I've stated elsewhere that I believe marijuana ought to be legal and I'm stating here why it isn't and tobacco is.

I mentioned small tobacco farmers for a different reason. Taxes, restrictions and lawsuits against tobacco increase everyday and everyday small tobacco farmers loose ground to larger tobacco firms which can deal more efficiently with the restrictions. As the restrictions increase, small tobacco will go out of business and if criminalize, the larger firms will give way to cartels every bit as troublesome as the Mexican mob. Legalize either and their's no guarantee that either will come back as a wholesome industry. (Given prohibition, it seems likely, but isn't a given.)

So those that oppose one and support the other aren't necessarily hypocrites so much as tunnel visioned. Which is all I really have to say.

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#69
post #63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not. The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana. So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

That's correct, but we are now in a hypocritical situation. We can't say "history made Nicotine legal, but let's pretend that THC is illegal for good reasons". Yes, there may be good reasons for an individual to not smoke pot, but that doesn't mean there are good reasons for keeping it illegal.

We can't say "history made Nicotine legal, but let's pretend that THC is illegal for good reasons"

Good, because I didn't say that.

Re: Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary tale

#70
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Marijuana studies actually funded in the US (they are rare and typically have 1 result) should be cautiously taken into account with the knowledge that our administration does whatever it can to spread FUD to the public about the drug. Follow the money trail ...

That's an ad hominem argument write large. You can't dismiss a study just because it was funded by someone you disagree with. You have to take it on its own terms. If the study is flawed, show the flaws, if not, it shouldn't matter who funded it.

Funding, like all procedures and data used in the study is very relevant. In a perfect world it wouldn't, but sadly who is paying the bills often dictates the results of these studies. In that perfect world, there would also be scores of scientists who are paid to analyze studies like this to prove/disapprove the conclusion, but again our imperfect system means funding for intelligent study of Marijuana is severely lacking.

I would imagine getting US government funds to study the "potential damage of marijuana on x" would be a lot easier than getting funding for the "potential benefits of marijuana on y".

Just because we don't see competing studies does not mean the data is not there.

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