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Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

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Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#61
post #29
post #8

The proliferation of half-baked services at AWS needs to end. There are way too many services that are just enticing enough to get you to play around with it, but then you realize it's totally crippled and unusable for most actual workflows, or that someone else already does it way better. They need to focus on a few that are commercially viable and let other companies prove out the rest.

I've always said AWS is the master of the 80% solution. They make a product that gets you most of the way there. The reason they can get away with this is because your data is already at AWS. It's a lot easier to use a new service if the data you need is already there. That's their advantage. That's where the real lock in comes from. Not from you using their services, but from you keeping your data there.

Most of the competing services are built on AWS anyways, so it's not like there's big problem switching back and forth...

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how it can cost so much, and also how YouTube or Twitch would let you stream for free. They can't be making that much money off a stream, can they? A 10 hour stream viewed by 20,000 people... My recollection of YouTube is that they pay the creator approximately a dollar per thousand views, if that's a third of what they make, then they make 3 dollars per thousand views. Assume YouTube counts a view as ten…

You can't compare it to how much it costs YouTube. You have to compare it to how much it would take to build yourself. Here is Fastly CDN pricing https://www.fastly.com/pricing which is a good enough indication of the market value of data transfer costs. Note that CDNs charge in $/GB (big B byte) and video is usually considered in Mbps (small b bit). Consider that the most costly tier of Amazon service ($0.17/hour) i…

It is worse than that.

In order to do streaming well (i.e. to prevent consumers from running away and coming back), one needs take an incoming stream and re-encode it in multiple bit rates - 1080p stream would have not only 8Mbit/sec but also 2Mbit/sec, and 128Kbit/sec qualities. In addition to that for a decent distribution there should also be a 4Mbit/sec and probably 64kbit/sec streams.

As players either hunt down or hunt up, one would be carrying a pretty big number of random cold chunks that are unlikely to be requested again at the edge, which has a negative impact on hit CDN hit rates.

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#63
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean all those Twitch streamers see their chats More than 4 seconds after the relevant video has elapsed? And can you explain what you mean by “stateful”? Thanks

> all those Twitch streamers see their chats More than 4 seconds after the relevant video has elapsed Yep! I think Twitch can sometimes be at 4 seconds or less for what it's worth, but yes, that delay is real. It's generally not really noticeable because the communication is totally async; the streamer is doing other stuff, finishing other thoughts, etc, then can get to messages as they see them. > can you explain wh…

HTTP connections are stateful too. Clients aren’t doing tls handshakes every request, for instance.

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#64
post #57
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then there's also online proctoring for test taking for universities as well where you need to stream live test takers to proctors.

What? People go on camera to sit exams so they can be invigilated? That's so short sighted. Anyone who wanted to cheat could do anything to circumvent that - first comes to mind is plastering the wall with notes...

When I did my ham radio test they had me show the camera around the room, desk, wall, ceiling, floor, anything that was easy to glance at. Or better just use my cell phone as a second camera looking at me from the back left.

I do find it funny that people get mad about this "invasion of privacy" except this is exactly what a live in person proctor is looking for.

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#65

Price is pretty good, surprisingly. Looks like they take RTMP in and output m3u8 (probably fmp4 behind the scenes). 2 second latency is also not bad. Larger streamers on Twitch can get ~20k concurrent viewers. A long streaming day would be 10 hours. They would also be streaming from NA so using their example pricing suggests: Input: $2/hour * 10 hours = $20 Output: $0.15 * 10 * 20,000 = $30k A worst case scenario of…

Until 5 years ago I was CTO of a company called Livestation where we handled live streaming of about 40 news broadcasters including Al Jazeera, BBC World, CNN International, etc. In my stint we dealt with the Egyptian and Turkish uprisings. The relevant diasporas were super keen to see what was going on in all those countries, and often the only places you could see them online was with us (we had raw feeds in a few…

> When Akamai can offer you a better deal than this, you have to wonder how good a deal this is. :-)

If you were doing the volume of traffic necessary to get the Akamai discount in the range you are suggesting then you are also going to be able to negotiate Amazon pricing in a similar way. It is unfair to compare theoretical bulk CDN pricing to non-discounted Amazon pricing. It would be like negatively comparing the published price of some other CDN to your private knowledge of deals you did with Akamai that probably included contractual commitments.

If you go by published CDN pricing (I use Fastly as an example in another post below) and assume you are pushing close to the maximum bitrate then the comparison is actually reasonably fair. Anything outside of that is speculation based on theoretical deals you might negotiate based on theoretical usages.

However, I would have no problem agreeing that building your own system to handle large scale would probably get to a lower $/GB. But then you have to build it, maintain it, monitor it, etc.

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#66
post #59

How does this compare to mux.com?

Caveat: Mux founder.

Mux supports both VOD and Live video (and seamless transition from Live to VOD); this service is only live streaming. We’re a crack team of video experts who work really closely with our customers. Better developer experience, documentation, and support. More feature-rich and powerful. 100% focused on building the best video products for developers, rather than being AWS service #213.

In general, we don’t like to bad-mouth competitors and we have lots of friends in engineering at Twitch and AWS (hi folks!), so hopefully this won’t be taken the wrong way. Twitch has built a great platform and kudos to them for this service, and obviously AWS is the most successful software business in the world today. Online video is growing quickly and there is room for a lot of players to succeed.

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until 5 years ago I was CTO of a company called Livestation where we handled live streaming of about 40 news broadcasters including Al Jazeera, BBC World, CNN International, etc. In my stint we dealt with the Egyptian and Turkish uprisings. The relevant diasporas were super keen to see what was going on in all those countries, and often the only places you could see them online was with us (we had raw feeds in a few…

> When Akamai can offer you a better deal than this, you have to wonder how good a deal this is. :-) If you were doing the volume of traffic necessary to get the Akamai discount in the range you are suggesting then you are also going to be able to negotiate Amazon pricing in a similar way. It is unfair to compare theoretical bulk CDN pricing to non-discounted Amazon pricing. It would be like negatively comparing the…

My problem with Amazon at the time, was there was no mechanism to start that conversation. Most CDNs have account managers where you can have a call and discuss a TB/month commit, and price accordingly. I looked for ways to reach out to AWS to do the same, and no dice: they have the Hollywood principle in place, which means you'll get your account manager after you have already committed to them as a platform.

I'm sure that I would have got a better deal if only I'd figured out how...

Re: Amazon Interactive Video Service – Add Live Video to Your Apps and Websites

#68
post #59

How does this compare to mux.com?

Caveat: Mux founder. Mux supports both VOD and Live video (and seamless transition from Live to VOD); this service is only live streaming. We’re a crack team of video experts who work really closely with our customers. Better developer experience, documentation, and support. More feature-rich and powerful. 100% focused on building the best video products for developers, rather than being AWS service #213. In general,…

this was a great answer!
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