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Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

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Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#61

Post by Nasrudith »

cies wrote: post #30
iand wrote: post #10

Can someone explain why ketosis is the secondary energy system in the body and not the primary?

Our bodies are primate bodies. Primates are frugavorian omnivores (get most calories from fruit, and eat very little animal tissue (mostly insects)). Fruit contain mostly carbs: short carbs a.k.a. sugars. We're optimized for eating lots of sugar. Primates have a hard time producing fat from carbs (a process called lipogenesis), just a few calorie% per day. This, combined with the tiny bits of fat in fruits/insects, w…

Notably if you want an example of a primary ketosis digestion look at cats, who have kidneys overclocked enough they can drink sea water (but shouldn't because they are stressed enough as it is), and may suffer ammonia poisoning if given meals deficent in the right ammino acids to prevent its build up.

We aren't anywhere close to redesigning ourselves to change things around but it is important to realize that "good" and "bad" aren't intrinsic but contextual in medicine, the dose makes the poison and all.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#62

Post by abtom »

StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#63

Post by shock »

cies wrote: post #30
iand wrote: post #10

Can someone explain why ketosis is the secondary energy system in the body and not the primary?

Our bodies are primate bodies. Primates are frugavorian omnivores (get most calories from fruit, and eat very little animal tissue (mostly insects)). Fruit contain mostly carbs: short carbs a.k.a. sugars. We're optimized for eating lots of sugar. Primates have a hard time producing fat from carbs (a process called lipogenesis), just a few calorie% per day. This, combined with the tiny bits of fat in fruits/insects, w…

There are a lot of assertions in what you said, some pointers to resources where one can learn more would be useful.

In particular the Homininis have separated from the Gorillinis around 6-8 million years ago. In that time, lots of things could have changed in our physiology.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#64

Post by shlant »

sradman wrote: post #39

Before the advent of anti-seizure drugs, the ketogenic diet [1] was an effective and widespread intervention used to treat epilepsy. The downside is the discipline required to keep intake of carbohydrates below 15 grams per day, especially in children. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

additional downsides include kidney stones[1,2,3,4], bone mineral loss[5] and a long list of other complications (including death):

https://www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-d...

1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11095028/

2. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10893623/

3. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/088307380730192...

4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852806/

5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19064531/

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#65

Post by [deleted] »

Darmody wrote: post #26

I love how we're starting to focus on our diets to prevent or cure a huge amount of diseases. You don't need drugs, expensive treatments, nothing, only a good diet. (read the comments below for an clarification for this statement) I personally can't work on a very low carb diet. Now I'm eating carbs again but NOT refined carbs. I make sure everything I eat is nutrient dense. Well, not everything, I'm not a robot but…

[deleted]

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#66

Post by jonfw »

abtom wrote: post #62
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

This is well understood by now. The issue is that most people aren't actually going to track their calories- they eat when they're hungry. If you adjust your diet- you can satiate your appetite on a lower number of calories.

The idea is that meats, vegetables, and fats help you meet your nutritional goals on a fewer amount of calories when compared to carbs- because carbs are empty calories.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#67

Post by s1t5 »

abtom wrote: post #62
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

> You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

Achieve weight loss - yes, achieve the same weight loss - no. If you primarily want to lose fat rather than muscle, your insulin metabolism becomes an important variable.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#68

Post by randomchars »

billysielu wrote: post #37

I did it before for weight loss, it worked amazingly, but the weight came back on just as easily. It would have to be a permanent lifestyle change, and I'm not convinced that's safe.

This is true for every diet. If you get gain weight on your current lifestyle, start dieting and go back after you lost it, you'll gain that weight back.

There's no magic pill, if your current lifestyle makes you fat, you need a lifestyle change.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#69

Post by jonfw »

el_oni wrote: post #51
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

> reversed his T2 diabetes and lost quite a bit of weight doing keto. His doctor had advised meds to “manage” the disease. My assumption there is that compliance for meds is probably better than compliance for huge lifestyle changes (such as diet). And that most people that the doctor sees in your BILs situation wouldn't stick to a ketogenic diet, and would need to go onto meds at some point in the future anyway. Asi…

You've also got to look at how doctors are being incentivized. Medicine funnels more money into the medical system- and kickbacks or 'rewards' programs from pharmaceutical companies are common.

Outside of that- people like their doctors to do things. Everybody knows that they could use a better diet and more exercise- a doctor who says that and nothing else may not make people feel like they're getting their money's worth.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#70

Post by [deleted] »

abtom wrote: post #62
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

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