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Redis Core Team Update

redislabs.com

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Re: Redis Core Team Update

#61
post #26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case you wonder, they are not random people put there for reasons, like for example since Madelyn is a woman so there was some pressure to add she Kind of a strange thing to call out.

Until you called out Madelyn as a she. I had no idea. Fundamentally men and women have similar brain physiology, so an equal amount of compute and memory. Which would imply there are no differences when it comes to programming ability. It's just a matter of experience. I'm glad HN doesn't have profile pictures and things.

> I'm glad HN doesn't have profile pictures and things.

THIS

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember hearing it used in that way before; I think you would have to go back a couple of centuries for that usage. You can be confident that you won't need that definition in your own usage unless you decide to write an 18th century character or something. To add to the etymology links (I was also intrigued): https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/08/terror-terrific.h...

I always think of the famous Hindenburg crash tape. "it's a terrific crash" 1937 for those, like me, that weren't sure of the decade. https://genius.com/Herbert-morrison-hindenburg-disaster-broa...

Sure - but that is "terrific" in the still-current sense of "massive, of great size" - not the archaic use in the parent.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#63
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a product that I'm working on, which is focused on developer first metrics. I want to create software metrics, that developers can trust, which in turn can be used to properly gauge productivity and risk. I've studied software metrics for quite sometime and they are widely despised by developers, because they are a) not useful for developers b) never put effort into context that can be discussed, vetted and refi…

That looks amazing! Is there a way to subscribe to updates / releases?

Hey thanks for the interest. Unfortunately I don't have an automated way to sign up (my focus really is on the technology as it's not trivial), but if you send me an email (see profile), I can add you to my list.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#64
post #23

What will be interesting to see is how Redis fares without Antirez. He was the heart and soul of the project. It also makes me think, what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away? I kind of don't want to think about it. Thank you to Antirez for all your hard work on Redis.

One of my favorite bits of trivia: What would Git be like if Linus stepped away? Oh yeah, he stepped away after a few months and Junio Hamano continued running it for the next 15 years[1] (!!). [1]: https://github.com/git/git/graphs/contributors

While this is true, I think Git is quite different. Linus has said that he's not really a "VCS guy", so apart from high level architecture and high level concepts of what Git actually is as a VCS, he hasn't really had as much impact on Git's codebase as much as Linux.

Antirez, on the other hand, has had a large part in the continued development of Redis since it's inception, so like, 11 years or so (2009).

AFAIK, apart from UI improvements over the years, Git has _largely_ been the same since inception, in that you can watch a video as far back as e.g https://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8 and not much has really changed since those days (by the time Linus gave that prez, Junio already started running the project).

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. Antirez has been contributing to redis for over 11 years and accounts for 80% of all its code churn. https://imgur.com/RnlzECa In just the last 90 days, he accounted for 50% of the code that is being changed in redis. I'm currently indexing the Git repository, as I'm curious to see the impact Linus had before he left, but I don't think Linus leaving, is anything like antirez leaving.…

I think they were replying to a different bit of the parent comment than you seem to think: > ... what would Linux be when Linus decides to step away?

I think it was a fair reply. Linus's contributions to Git, while basically 100% of the project initially, were not sustained over as long as Antirez's contributions to Redis.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#66
post #33
post #4

Interesting move, putting “SLA-driven” infrastructure engineers (i.e. people working at public clouds to deliver Redis-as-a-Service solutions) in charge of the project. (Not just these two from AWS and Alibaba Cloud, but the rest being from Redis Labs.) It seems like, for one reason or another (Redis Labs because they want to sell their “core plus proprietary modules” service; the clouds because they want to push you…

> I’m sure people running Redis in production are happy about that. I sympathize with the main points you were making, but surely ‘people running Redis in production’ are the core use case for Redis, so ultimately this move seems good for the project’s overall direction.

Zooming out, there are two kinds of production infra software:

1. the kind that devops people directly see a need (usually a scaling need) to integrate it into a stack of existing production software; where this integration may or may not require additional development-time work (i.e. connector glue code in the business layer), but is either way an ops use-case. Examples: any caching layer, any message queue.

2. the kind that developers integrate with in order to get the semantic guarantees that particular kind of software offers; and then ops people are left "holding the bag", needing to deploy that same software (or something compatible with its wire protocol) in production because that's what the business logic was written to depend on. Examples: most databases; object storage; map-reduce workload engines.

Usually, it's pretty clear which bucket a piece of infra software falls into—either it's developers or ops people that suggest it as a solution, but rarely is a piece of software equally loved by both.

But Redis straddles the line between these usually-clear clusters of software. It can be a metrics-reactive "patch" to a running system to get it to scale better; but it can also be a development-time foundation for business logic, or a dependency of a library where it was a dev-time foundation for its business logic (e.g. any "background worker" library.)

In other words, Redis Core as a project, serves two masters: it must both be

1. a stable, scale-multiplying, worry-free daemon you can easily toss into your existing legacy infra;

2. a feature-rich "durable data-structure server", allowing developers to obviate the keeping of durable state in the app layer itself.

The new leadership certainly will care a lot about use-case 1.

I'm pretty sure, though, that the previous leadership (i.e. Antirez) cared almost exclusively about use-case 2—making developers' lives easier by taking durable-in-memory-state-management code they were writing, and replacing it with calls to Redis. That's why we didn't see TLS support and so forth for so long. Redis wasn't being built for ops people; it was being built for developers. Code that went into complex deploy-time use-cases, was only ever added by Antirez as a consequence of systems developed for Redis now depending on running it in production. (E.g. you don't scale Redis into a cluster; you develop for the sharding semantics of Redis Cluster, and so therefore you must deploy Redis Cluster. You can "upgrade to" Redis Cluster after-the-fact, but it's far harder than just writing your code to be "cluster-safe" at the start. It's idiomatically a development-time choice you're supposed to be making, knowing the eventual "scaling goal" of your system.)

Yes, the rest of the core team—mostly ops-focused engineers—gradually accrued around Antirez. That's why many of these ops-time use-cases did start getting addressed.

I'm mostly worried that now, with Antrirez out of the picture, the team is unbalanced in the other direction: there's no one on the core team pushing the "developer productivity" side of the story.

To me, that laser focus on developer productivity was what made Redis consistently the infrastructure component I would most want to integrate to solve a problem, if it offered a solution to that problem. I knew that "the Redis approach" would always involve just a library import, a connection URL instantiation, and one or two atomic Redis command calls; whereas other libraries might require me to write delegate modules, serializers, attach to special listener modes, etc. And I always knew I could just open redis-cli and prototype out those same commands against my local zero-initial-config-required Redis server; where other infra might require me to fiddle with everything from setting my own compile-time flags, to JVM memory-management, to Docker image volume mounting, etc.

I really just hope that the new leadership retains enough of the spirit Antirez has been injecting into Redis, that they'll reject PRs that solve ops use-cases but come at the expense of developer productivity (e.g. moving to entirely-async command execution, and then deprecating the text-based Redis wire protocol because it's hard to integrate its parsing into a Jepsen-correct threaded execution engine, or something like that.) Such features wouldn't hurt cloud deployments for existing Redis users at all, but they'd sure scare away new developers from finding new ways to replace business logic with Redis.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#67
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What site are those screenshots from?

It's a product that I'm working on, which is focused on developer first metrics. I want to create software metrics, that developers can trust, which in turn can be used to properly gauge productivity and risk. I've studied software metrics for quite sometime and they are widely despised by developers, because they are a) not useful for developers b) never put effort into context that can be discussed, vetted and refi…

Looks promising. Are you active on Reddit? Because the screenshots looked familiar, and I think I've seen screenshots of your app posted there before.

Good points about software metrics. I'm not a big believer in them, either. I think the most useful metric I've ever needed or been able to use was in one case where I needed to see a developer's contribution activity. Looking at a specific developer, aggregated across a Github organization, it was clear they were just not doing much work!

Hoping you'll post a "Show HN" when you release.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#68
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a product that I'm working on, which is focused on developer first metrics. I want to create software metrics, that developers can trust, which in turn can be used to properly gauge productivity and risk. I've studied software metrics for quite sometime and they are widely despised by developers, because they are a) not useful for developers b) never put effort into context that can be discussed, vetted and refi…

Looks promising. Are you active on Reddit? Because the screenshots looked familiar, and I think I've seen screenshots of your app posted there before. Good points about software metrics. I'm not a big believer in them, either. I think the most useful metric I've ever needed or been able to use was in one case where I needed to see a developer's contribution activity. Looking at a specific developer, aggregated across…

Thanks for the kind words. I'm on reddit but I haven't posted in a while, so I'm not sure if what you saw was mine.

Actionable software metrics is extremely hard to create, which is why we are often left with VERY LOW hanging fruit metrics or novelty metrics, as I like to call them. I honestly believe we are at a point now, where hardware is cheap and good enough, that we can generate very meaningful software metrics.

With GitPrime having sold for 180 USD in cash, and with GitHub and GitLab both investing in software development insights, there is a clear sign that managers and business leaders want to know what is going on. Unfortunately what we have now, in my opinion, borders on snake oil, which I'm hoping to use to my advantage to contrast my solution with others.

> Hoping you'll post a "Show HN" when you release.

Great, I'm looking forward to your upvote as getting traction is really hard :-)

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#69
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks promising. Are you active on Reddit? Because the screenshots looked familiar, and I think I've seen screenshots of your app posted there before. Good points about software metrics. I'm not a big believer in them, either. I think the most useful metric I've ever needed or been able to use was in one case where I needed to see a developer's contribution activity. Looking at a specific developer, aggregated across…

Thanks for the kind words. I'm on reddit but I haven't posted in a while, so I'm not sure if what you saw was mine. Actionable software metrics is extremely hard to create, which is why we are often left with VERY LOW hanging fruit metrics or novelty metrics, as I like to call them. I honestly believe we are at a point now, where hardware is cheap and good enough, that we can generate very meaningful software metrics…

Feel free to email me when you release! My email is in my profile.

Re: Redis Core Team Update

#70
post #52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming that you couldn’t find any woman who was qualified for your project?

Why are you jumping to that conclusion? The parent comment probably couldn't even find a person qualified to lead and you had to make it a gender thing.

The parent comment explicitly made it about gender. They explicitly said they had a man they liked but couldn't hire him because of HR.
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