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H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

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Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#61

Post by monoideism »

arcticbull wrote: post #53
monoideism wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I think that number doesn't even really capture the problem. Because it doesn't indicate by how much those workers salary is lower than average. The studies I've seen on this suggest it's a significant gap. I'll see if I can find that study, and others. >Does this delta level off over time once foreign workers achieve a certain level of domestic experience? Does it go away once they transfer to new jobs? I'…

> Also make an O-1 type visa as an immigrant visa. That's unnecessary, as the O-1 has the same requirements as an EB1A green card petition. The immigrant visa form of the O-1 is simply an EB1A petition. It's actually possible to self-petition EB1A. Only India and China have a backlog of EB1A petitions, and their priority dates are ~2017. I'd love to read that study if you dig it up! For what it's worth, I believe in…

Interesting about EB1A, didn't know.

I agree that we need reform in this area. For one, a bidding system for H1-B type visas could prevent much of the abuse. Like you, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I like the points-based system. Not sure why that got so much criticism (probably simply because it came from him). It's similar to Canada's system, which most people around the globe seem to admire.

I hope people can understand that it isn't some kind of xenophobic nativism that inspires the H1-B dislike among some Americans. It's fear for our financial future. It isn't always obvious to those working in SV, but in most of the country, the typical lower- or middle-class worker has not been enjoying a a booming economy in terms of wages. Real wages for the middle- and lower-classes in the US have been stagnant or falling for decades. So we're fighting to get or remain in the middle class.

In my own extended family, the generational difference in financial security is stark, despite getting similar degrees, military service, working hard, etc etc. Some cousins are basically falling out of the middle class. Crossing over into some kind of IT work is one of the few remaining paths someone at age 30 can take to remain in the middle class after their profession is lost to globalization or automation. I have a cousin who did it.

Anyway, I think real immigration reform won't happen under either of the current political parties. We need something new, which is unlikely to happen.

Edit: here the study referenced in that article, at least: https://www.epi.org/publication/h-1b-visas-and-prevailing-wa...

Edit: Here's the paper I was thinking of. It's pretty convincing to me. I'd be interested in your input: https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/uploads/research/pdf/h1b.pd...

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#62

Post by triceratops »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #31
rpiguy wrote: post #12

The H-1B program is terrible and needs to be reformed. It is supposed to temporarily shore up the supply of critically skilled workers that are in demand. While it does this, when the program was envisioned no one imagined H-1B visa holders working here for 10+ years. If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotia…

I don't think incremental reform can work here. As you say, the H-1B is by design a non-immigrant visa. If we want a "I'd like to immigrate to the US for software engineering" visa, we need to design one from scratch; anything jury-rigged on top of the H-1B process is going to be inequitable or unfair somehow.

"Non-immigrant visa" simply means "getting it doesn't grant you immigrant status". In this way it's like a tourist or student visa.

The H-1B is a dual-intent visa. This means "you may apply for it and show intent to immigrate, for example, by starting the PERM process". This is unlike a tourist or student visa, where there are grounds for denial if you show any intent to immigrate.

There are a number of "I'd like to immigrate to the US" visas, primarily based around 3 categories - family, employment, or refugee status. The employment-based green card (which is what H-1B holders apply for) has quotas based upon the applicant's country of birth. An H-1B holder born anywhere other than India or China can get an employment-based green card in less than 3 years.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#63

Post by frostburg »

29athrowaway wrote: post #57
russellbeattie wrote: post #26

The H-1B program definitely needs more regulation to prevent abuse by companies (especially when it comes to salary negotiations). But if anything we should increase the number - it's not like those people are just going to not work if they don't come to the U.S. They'll just work in different countries, either driving more offshoring of labor by American companies, or just competing with them directly. It's in the U…

H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1. H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability. Many personal friends of mine are H-1B and they would not be even considered the best or brightest in their own household. Of course, you have to be somewhat smart to meet the basic requirements: bachelor's degree or equivalent. But that does not mean you are among the best .

I have a friend with an EB-1 visa. She's good ("alien of exceptional ability") at her job I suppose, which is being a porn actress. Somewhat hilariously it was rather easy for her to meet the criteria (international prizes, being highly paid compared to peers, commercial success, being published in media etc.).

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#64

Post by dilyevsky »

gok wrote: post #47
russellbeattie wrote: post #26

The H-1B program definitely needs more regulation to prevent abuse by companies (especially when it comes to salary negotiations). But if anything we should increase the number - it's not like those people are just going to not work if they don't come to the U.S. They'll just work in different countries, either driving more offshoring of labor by American companies, or just competing with them directly. It's in the U…

Increase the count and also the minimum salary. It's bonkers that the $65k minimum from 1989 has never been updated, especially given which cities many H1B immigrants need to live.

H1b min salary is adjusted based on locale. Mountain View , CA was ~90k around 2011 if I recall correctly

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#65

Post by dilyevsky »

baby wrote: post #30

The H-1B system is terrible. I applied twice to it while I was on an internship visa, and ended up not getting through the lottery and had to leave the US. Then had to wait a year and a half to get a greencard in order to come back.

Not as terrible as suggested alternative

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#66

Post by ardit33 »

ideals wrote: post #55
baby wrote: post #30

The H-1B system is terrible. I applied twice to it while I was on an internship visa, and ended up not getting through the lottery and had to leave the US. Then had to wait a year and a half to get a greencard in order to come back.

Is it worth it? The more I read about this the more I question if it is actually worth the trouble. However I am a US citizen, something which in these conversations make me realize how lucky (privileged) I am to not endure this

Of course.... for many it is, even though it is very abusive and a terrible system. Let's be honest, it is a modern interpretation of 19th century 'in-tenured servitude'. It is almost Feudal system by nature.

It is very similar to workers having to 'pay their immigration' debts, while not directly, but by tying the visa to an employe, and making hard to move employers if you are going through the green card process (it can reset you green card process in many cases).

Who knew, the feudal system if live and well, in the 21st century. If you don't like it, banishment/expulsion from the community. (aka, deportation) to where you come from.

It is something that many put up, for a better life. If you are in the 'non capped' countries, usually it is few years to endure it until you get the green card, but for the caped countries, it can take decades to get the green card.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#67

Post by harpratap »

ideals wrote: post #55
baby wrote: post #30

The H-1B system is terrible. I applied twice to it while I was on an internship visa, and ended up not getting through the lottery and had to leave the US. Then had to wait a year and a half to get a greencard in order to come back.

Is it worth it? The more I read about this the more I question if it is actually worth the trouble. However I am a US citizen, something which in these conversations make me realize how lucky (privileged) I am to not endure this

For someone from countries like India - it is. Not so much for someone from countries like Germany or Japan I suppose.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#68

Post by 29athrowaway »

frostburg wrote: post #63
29athrowaway wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H-1B1 is not the visa type for the best and brightest. That visa type is EB-1. H-1B is about skills in high demand not extraordinary ability. Many personal friends of mine are H-1B and they would not be even considered the best or brightest in their own household. Of course, you have to be somewhat smart to meet the basic requirements: bachelor's degree or equivalent. But that does not mean you are among the best .

I have a friend with an EB-1 visa. She's good ("alien of exceptional ability") at her job I suppose, which is being a porn actress. Somewhat hilariously it was rather easy for her to meet the criteria (international prizes, being highly paid compared to peers, commercial success, being published in media etc.).

Today, in things that never happened...

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#69

Post by maxerickson »

jypepin wrote: post #6
Jach wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: Citizenship and Immigration said in its report that coming up with a number for H-1Bs living in the U.S. “is complex, as no electronic data system tracks or houses this information.” A scream emoji seems appropriate...

So when a H1b holder enters the US with their H1b, there is no way for the border official to know if it's real? That seems impossible to me.

Lots of authentic documents are illegitimate.

Re: H-1B: Government issues first-ever official estimate of visa population in U.S.

#70

Post by dilyevsky »

rpiguy wrote: post #12

The H-1B program is terrible and needs to be reformed. It is supposed to temporarily shore up the supply of critically skilled workers that are in demand. While it does this, when the program was envisioned no one imagined H-1B visa holders working here for 10+ years. If only there were a word for the importation of minority labor and locking them into employment with their sponsor, effectively reducing their negotia…

I got from h1b to gc in under 3 years but that was a while ago when caps weren’t being maxed out. Essentially your argument is to remove the caps which Im not sure most people would support (for rather selfish reasons)
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