“Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber • Hacker News Board

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#61

Post by Swenrekcah » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #35

I have to say I had the exact opposite reaction. I was also intrigued by the depiction in the Manhunt series and read the manifesto as a result. In the TV show, Kaczinky is portrayed as a highly intellectual, informed, educated individual, mentally thwarting his interviewer in their debate on morals and politics. After building up that expectation of Kaczinky's intellect, the manifesto is an enormous disappointment.…

>He proposes that "leftists" have this belief in their own freedom, but that this freedom is a delusion.

Interesting, because my pet theory is that what determines if people lean left or right is their belief in their own free will.

Those that truly believe they are completely free and autonomus from society and their environment will naturally favor right wing policies, but those that believe they are largely a product of their environment will favor left wing policies.

This belief is perhaps (probably) not always explicit but rather somehow implicit or 'felt'.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#62

Post by The_Colonel » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:20 AM UTC

smart_jackal wrote: post #54

The_Colonel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the classical "I feel this way so everybody should feel this way". People have been seeking pleasure since they were living in a cave. Boredom thing also sounds completely baseless. I still remember when I was bored as a child - it had nothing to do with anxiety, frustration or anything like that (I didn't have any). Children (and then adults) simply have drive to do something interesting/enjoyable (for quite cl…

The caveman pleasures were limited to the culinary (having food) and the carnal (having sex). But today's human has surpassed any and every definition of greed for pleasure. Capitalists having billions in their banks and shareholding across companies still crave for more and more pleasure. I just don't understand what kind of pleasure people are after today.

Yes, pleasure is today more accessible than ever and people sort of get hooked on it.

But the original argument was that if you are in harmony with nature you even dislike the idea of strong pleasure (like sex) and that's just clearly wrong.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#63

Post by vanderZwan » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

> Theodore J. Kaczynski is an extremely intelligent yet wounded man

Just a heads-up to the poster (who seems to also be the person who wrote the blog), but the link in this passage goes to the wiki page for Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber, while I suspect it was intended to link to Ted Kaczynski's page

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Industrial_Socie...

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#64

Post by cm2187 » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

SisypheanLife wrote: post #39

jamesdhutton wrote: post #12

He murdered people to publicize his manifesto. I feel that if I were to read it, I would be encouraging others to kill to get their views known. So I won't be reading it, regardless of its merits.

He was one of the youngest professors ever at his University and was one who was experimented on by the CIA. There are some novelties here that exist other than him being a random school shooter.

So a murderer is OK as long as he is a good academic scholar.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#65

Post by esperent » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:21 AM UTC

smart_jackal wrote: post #54

The_Colonel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the classical "I feel this way so everybody should feel this way". People have been seeking pleasure since they were living in a cave. Boredom thing also sounds completely baseless. I still remember when I was bored as a child - it had nothing to do with anxiety, frustration or anything like that (I didn't have any). Children (and then adults) simply have drive to do something interesting/enjoyable (for quite cl…

The caveman pleasures were limited to the culinary (having food) and the carnal (having sex). But today's human has surpassed any and every definition of greed for pleasure. Capitalists having billions in their banks and shareholding across companies still crave for more and more pleasure. I just don't understand what kind of pleasure people are after today.

That's unfair in the extreme to the intellect of cavemen and women. No doubt they had rich and complex internal lives and were as capable as you or I of enjoying birdsong, beautiful sunsets, and so on.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#66

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

Very, very smart, but very disturbed man. If you are interested in reading manifestos from murderers, which might not be the best leisure time pursuit, this one is actually good compared to the common nazi stuff.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#67

Post by ajkdhcb2 » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #47

daenz wrote: post #23

Some people here can't seem to separate ideas from the person who generates them, and that is sad. You can hate what a person did and still try to understand why they did it. That does not equate to support for them. It's this kind of closed-mindedness that is driving people apart all over the world.

> Some people here can't seem to separate ideas from the person who generates them Would these writings be considered famous or even worthwhile if it wasn't for this person's actions? I think the answer is quite clear.

I'm not so sure. People wouldn't be so afraid to share it and admit that they agree.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#68

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

PuffinBlue wrote: post #15

I did. And wrote about it[0]. And I'm not a techno-optimist but you won't find much to truly learn in the manifesto if you are one. The manifesto is far more about 'control' than it is about technology. He spreads the blame to the Left, the Over-Socialized, the 'Elite' and technology - with thinly veiled stopover at the 'stupid' too. And by 'control' he doesn't simply mean control through technology, it's about Kaczy…

[deleted]

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#69

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

torb-xyz wrote: post #45

If you want to read a critique of modern industrialization and it impact on nature and society by someone who’s not a violent terrorist and has solutions beyond blowing shit up Murray Bookchin is probably a betyer bet.

another great author for understanding the dangers of reductive "Systems Thinking" and how state & power takes away freedom (via Technology) is James C. Scott.

I prefer quoting Ellul in this context though because he was instrumental in forming Kaczinsky's views.

Re: “Industrial Society and its Future”: the writings of the Unabomber

#70

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Jul 06, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #22

First, this post title is worded like clickbait. (edit: it has been updated) Second, can someone suggest alternative readings for those of us who don't want to give attention to work that was publicized via terrorism and murder?

> Second, can someone suggest alternative readings for those of us who don't want to give attention to work that was publicized via terrorism and murder?

Anarcho-primitivism is a fairly well-established critique of large-scale social organization powered by "industrial" technology. Maybe read about neo-tribalism and small-scale living in eco-villages/eco-towns, if you don't want to go deep into anarchist thought.