Great article, what we come to hacker news for.
Edited to add: I'm starting to think that wireless communications were–on balance–a terrible mistake.
Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
61–70 of 91 posts
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
[edit: re-read your post; you're well aware what handoff is, so sorry for the overly vivid explanation] That's 'cell planning'. Roaming is different: Let's say you're moving from your bedroom to the kitchen. The bedroom AP's signal suddenly drops. Your smartphone needs to find the kitchen AP, re-connect, and re-transmit all the packets that might have been lost. Mobile networks assist the smartphone: it tells the sma…
>In theory, WiFi can do this too. WiFi actually can't do this. It's a shame, but fully network-directed roaming is not a thing in 802.11 yet, and I don't know when it's going to bother to show up. The major protocol extensions you can use are 802.11k, 802.11r, and 802.11v. They have a compounding increase in roaming performance in roughly that level of significance. 802.11k is a pure win. It should always be used. 80…
Thanks!
Do those extensions require client support, and if so, is it supported by consumer devices?
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In theory, WiFi can do this too. WiFi actually can't do this. It's a shame, but fully network-directed roaming is not a thing in 802.11 yet, and I don't know when it's going to bother to show up. The major protocol extensions you can use are 802.11k, 802.11r, and 802.11v. They have a compounding increase in roaming performance in roughly that level of significance. 802.11k is a pure win. It should always be used. 80…
Thanks! Do those extensions require client support, and if so, is it supported by consumer devices?
Yes.
iOS supports them all: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202628
Mac OS doesn't support any of them (much to my chagrin).
On Windows, it has to be implemented by the driver. I suggest using Intel: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000...
With Android, it's hit or miss. All modern flagships support them AFAIK. Going back in time, it's limited to premium vendors. I'd expect the majority of devices to support 802.11k, although they're quiet about it. You'd have to check logs on your AP (if available) to determine if it's in use.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something made to have open source flashed safely. I use OpenWRT on my access points and router. Maybe not as easy but on the other hand nothing comes close in functionality (unless you buy products made for big business).
Thanks! Can you recommend a particular model?
For 802.11n, choose something with the ath9k driver. For 802.11ac, there's unfortunately nothing with an open firmware, but it seems ath10k and mt76 receive the most attention by developers working on bufferbloat reduction etc.
For 802.11ax, not sure there's anything available in the openwrt or mainline kernels yet. You might end up with something with a binary blob and you can't upgrade your kernel.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#65Very informative.
I use a TP Link 1750AC cheap router($60) that seems work perfectly fine for the whole house for streaming and surfing.
My internet is about 20mbps down and 6mbps up.
I never felt the need that my bandwidth is too slow somehow. What's the super 1Gbps wifi + ISP for? I never need it, maybe until I'm doing VR on Internet some day.
Transfer large files inside the house over wifi is the only time I felt wifi is not fast enough, but that happens once a year, for huge size files I can do USB transfer anyways.
In short, $60 router suffices for me. I see no needs for wifi6 yet for 99% of the households.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#66If you're interested in learning some networking, I recommend Ubiquiti. If you want to save money, I recommend used Ubiquiti.
My rationale for buying used is that basically normal consumers typically do not buy Ubiquiti enterprise products - so anyone who does is someone who has experience with technology and will take care of it well.
I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, but I hope it works!
I picked up an Edgerouter X SFP for $40 on FB Marketplace (retails for $99), the guy selling it is a mobility architect. It came in great condition. After I bought it I found an Edgerouter PoE5 ALSO being sold for $40 - this retails at $275. I don't really need it, but I've thought about buying it since it's so cheap anyways. I'm also going to purchase an AP AC Long Range for $50 - this retails at $109.
The Edgerouters do not come with an AP built in, so you have to buy one separately. I don't mind doing this since I think it's easier to mount an access point than it is to mount a router since you have to worry about less wires (just ethernet if the ap can be poe'd).
For about $90 total I'll have an enterprise router and AP that'll work much better than the cheap sagecom router I'm renting from my ISP.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#67If you're interested in learning some networking, I recommend Ubiquiti. If you want to save money, I recommend used Ubiquiti. My rationale for buying used is that basically normal consumers typically do not buy Ubiquiti enterprise products - so anyone who does is someone who has experience with technology and will take care of it well. I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, but I hope it works! I picked up an E…
> I picked up an Edgerouter X SFP for $40 on FB Marketplace
Be careful buying second-hand electronics, particularly networking kit!
You should re-flash the device's firmware. The OpenWRT website should be able to guide you to stock firmware images for most modern SOHO devices.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#68If you're interested in learning some networking, I recommend Ubiquiti. If you want to save money, I recommend used Ubiquiti. My rationale for buying used is that basically normal consumers typically do not buy Ubiquiti enterprise products - so anyone who does is someone who has experience with technology and will take care of it well. I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, but I hope it works! I picked up an E…
> I picked up an Edgerouter X SFP for $40 on FB Marketplace Be careful buying second-hand electronics, particularly networking kit! You should re-flash the device's firmware. The OpenWRT website should be able to guide you to stock firmware images for most modern SOHO devices.
You should do that regardless with any new equipment where possible. At the very least, it'll be up to date. Networking gear makes it especially easy to flash new firmware so it's just a few extra minutes of setup.
And in the case of some of Ubiquiti's gear, you have to reflash to just get started unforunately (my UDM Pro couldn't complete setup without a reflash and my Unifi Switch 8 couldn't be discovered by the new UDM until a reflash). That's a real fun software issue from Ubiquiti.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I picked up an Edgerouter X SFP for $40 on FB Marketplace Be careful buying second-hand electronics, particularly networking kit! You should re-flash the device's firmware. The OpenWRT website should be able to guide you to stock firmware images for most modern SOHO devices.
You should do that regardless with any new equipment where possible. At the very least, it'll be up to date. Networking gear makes it especially easy to flash new firmware so it's just a few extra minutes of setup. And in the case of some of Ubiquiti's gear, you have to reflash to just get started unforunately (my UDM Pro couldn't complete setup without a reflash and my Unifi Switch 8 couldn't be discovered by the ne…
It's probably best to avoid the built-in update utilities for the first re-flash. Uboot can load a kernel via TFTP over serial.
What you are worried about is backdoored firmware.
If this is too much work, just buy new kit in sealed packages. Saving a couple hundred bucks just isn't worth the risk.
Re: Make educated wireless router/AP upgrade decisions
#70If you're interested in learning some networking, I recommend Ubiquiti. If you want to save money, I recommend used Ubiquiti. My rationale for buying used is that basically normal consumers typically do not buy Ubiquiti enterprise products - so anyone who does is someone who has experience with technology and will take care of it well. I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, but I hope it works! I picked up an E…
I did the same (but I got a new EdgeRouter X), works nice. I do like that Unify integration though, so I might go for a USG after all (more expensive, can do less, but looks so nice in the controller!) I do worry about that need to do data collection that Ubiquiti has been showing recently. My network is deeply personal....