Earlier quoted context omitted.
It could also be motivated by the fact that it's not entirely wise to base an entire multibillion dollar business around whatever text a non-employee happens to push to a repo you don't control.
Android doesn't seem to mind, they require the LTS updates to be taken for their devices (well, "require" is a strong word, they are pushing harder now than they were in the past, "required" will be happening in the future, hopefully...) As the number of systems running RHEL is really just a rounding error compared to the number of Android systems out there, maybe it doesn't really matter :)
Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
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Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#62I really hate the fact that RHEL updates kernels so slowly. This becomes very painful when your product cannot take advantage of some advanced kernel features just because you have customers running RHEL :(.
Is there anyway you can use a different kernel? The kernel is really easily replaceable in other distros. I don't know much about RHEL.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand that completely and i already know your thoughts on that and in some extend i do agree. Still, i think we do have in hand a very characteristic issue that even without knowing the details, simply by searching commit messages for "crypto" "key" "buffer" etc it should alert somebody to give it a second and third look.
Hell no. You can't just "guess by words." The only thing (far!) worse than no impact marking is incomplete impact marking. That's just giving people a way to cop out, and they WILL use it.
If there is a commit that refers to a "memory leak" why shouldn't be, at least superfluously, checked, identified and have distros informed? (e.g 2ca068be09bf8e285036603823696140026dcbe7)
If the crypto fix was assigned early as a vulnerability would have stayed unpatched for that long?
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
It could also be motivated by the fact that it's not entirely wise to base an entire multibillion dollar business around whatever text a non-employee happens to push to a repo you don't control.
Android doesn't seem to mind, they require the LTS updates to be taken for their devices (well, "require" is a strong word, they are pushing harder now than they were in the past, "required" will be happening in the future, hopefully...) As the number of systems running RHEL is really just a rounding error compared to the number of Android systems out there, maybe it doesn't really matter :)
This sort of myopia is yet another excellent reason for Red Hat to take their kernel process in-house.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hell no. You can't just "guess by words." The only thing (far!) worse than no impact marking is incomplete impact marking. That's just giving people a way to cop out, and they WILL use it.
How is no marking better than some marking? If there is a commit that refers to a "memory leak" why shouldn't be, at least superfluously, checked, identified and have distros informed? (e.g 2ca068be09bf8e285036603823696140026dcbe7) If the crypto fix was assigned early as a vulnerability would have stayed unpatched for that long?
With no marking it is clear what it means: commits have not been audited to identify security-relevant ones.
With partial, incomplete marking, unmarked commits can be one of two things: commits that have not been looked at, and commits that have been looked at and are believed to contain no security relevant changes.
The majority of commits will be in the "not looked at" category. And there's enough people around to have a significant subset of them be lazy, ignorant, unskilled or stupid and take that as "contains no security relevant changes."
P.S.: also, patches are already marked. By being included in the LTS series. Because that means they were important enough to get a backport — though not necessarily due to security impact.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#66Can someone in the kernel dev space give a longer explanation for this? This looks to me like Red Hat assigning a CVE to something patched a long time ago. Is this just record keeping to label security issues with CVEs or has Red Hat left this unpatched for 17 months? (Or something else?)
Because Red Hat builds on open-source software and generally lags well behind the cutting edge, usually by the time RH identifies a problem in something like the Linux kernel it has already been found, reported, and assigned a CVE ID by someone else (unless it's discovered by RH's own kernel developers, in which case they would of course be working on a fix at the same time that they start the vulnerability process).
In this somewhat unusual case, the problem was found and corrected in the Linux kernel through a typical bug-fix process and not handled as a security vulnerability, so no CVE was assigned. When RH discovered the problem they made a determination that it should be handled as a security vulnerability, and so that triggered their normal process of disclosing and requesting that a CVE ID be assigned - in this case, even though the problem had already been fixed. It's not especially significant to this that RH had not backported the fix for this particular problem, as RH would generally go through a vulnerability process anyway because of the simple fact that some RH customers have not updated their systems, and so the vulnerability needs to be reported to them.
Overall the whole thing is not particularly interesting, really just a bit of security bookkeeping, except that it does expose that RH does not necessarily integrate LTS Linux releases, which means that they will sometimes not obtain security fixes included in such releases. Most of the time such security fixes would be treated as vulnerabilities by the organization that made them and the broader Linux community which would trigger RH's internal vulnerability management process leading to the fix being rolled out to RH products. However, many Linux bugs with potential security implications are not judged by the people finding and fixing them to be severe enough to merit a security vulnerability process... for instance, virtually every memory handling problem could be viewed as a vulnerability but requesting a CVE ID etc. is wasted effort if the problem is unlikely to be exploitable. The "unlikely" can be hard to tell. Ultimately this is sometimes a judgment call and different organizations will disagree, sometimes leading to situations like this where a downstream user chooses to treat it as a vulnerability after the fact.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, you can't do that in RHEL. It would invalidate support.
Seems sad that the modularity of Linux is not allowed due to issues with support. That, in my opinion, is the best part of Linux - which is finding solutions to problems that exists outside of the scope of what is designed by the vendors.
Unfortunately the kernel has significant and widespread implications on the system, so it's very hard to figure out how to support a system that is running a kernel version you haven't validated. As a RH customer, the way I handle this kind of thing is usually by replicating the problem on a "stock" system and working with RH support on fixing it on that system --- this is often an important step anyway since, for my own purposes, I need to figure out whether or not I introduced the problem by something I did.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#68I really hate the fact that RHEL updates kernels so slowly. This becomes very painful when your product cannot take advantage of some advanced kernel features just because you have customers running RHEL :(.
It can be frustrating, but it's almost always worth it in a serious production environment. I have my own anecdote: I have serveral home servers running CentOS 7 (set up nearly 6 years ago). I update all the time and I've had zero issues. Literally nothing has ever broken. My previous servers ran CentOS 6, and were equally reliable. My desktop runs Arch Linux, and gets ever kernel dot release. I've had an unbootable…
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#69Can someone in the kernel dev space give a longer explanation for this? This looks to me like Red Hat assigning a CVE to something patched a long time ago. Is this just record keeping to label security issues with CVEs or has Red Hat left this unpatched for 17 months? (Or something else?)
Red Hat's security program includes disclosing and tracking security vulnerabilities found in its products. As part of doing this, they obtain CVEs for any vulnerabilities which did not previously have them. CVE IDs are required by US gov't and many corporate security programs, as the broader point of the CVE system is not only to provide standardized identification of vulnerabilities but also assign certain metadata…
This isn't unusual. This is actually the usual case.
The unusual thing here is actually that someone downstream noticed they were missing a fix (probably because its LTP regression test was failing, which is also unusual because most kernel fixes don't have an LTP regression test).
More commonly, no one notices and these bugs never get fixed in downstream kernels that aren't staying up to-date with LTS; and there is never a CVE, an oss-security post, a Hacker News thread, etc. But these bugs are still there.
Re: Red Hat reports security issue in Linux Kernel which was fixed 17 months prior
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is no marking better than some marking? If there is a commit that refers to a "memory leak" why shouldn't be, at least superfluously, checked, identified and have distros informed? (e.g 2ca068be09bf8e285036603823696140026dcbe7) If the crypto fix was assigned early as a vulnerability would have stayed unpatched for that long?
> How is no marking better than some marking? With no marking it is clear what it means: commits have not been audited to identify security-relevant ones. With partial, incomplete marking, unmarked commits can be one of two things: commits that have not been looked at, and commits that have been looked at and are believed to contain no security relevant changes. The majority of commits will be in the "not looked at"…
Yes only a part of patches would be marked as such. That, major or minor, part would simply mean that people won't have to reinvent the particular wheel, as happened in this case. People won't be missing critical _discovered_ changes, the vulnerability would be discussed, recognized in its totality (PoC, documentation etc) and proper patches will be offered. There have been cases where LTS backports were old revisions of bad patches.
I think that baking LTS kernels is unnecessarily closer to an artistic approach of doing things.