> and will push each to the extreme to create better experiences for our users and reimagine what the web can become. OMG. For this 'better experience' and 'reimagining what the web can become' did you bother to ask the users you pretend to cater for? No? Listen carefully: the only experience I want from any website is to get to it, get the info I want, then I fuck off sharpish. I do not want 'experience' or any bloo…
The web is more than static websites.
Sure - see my comment elsewhere where I acknowledge that. But all I'm asking for is static sites where static sites are appropriate.
You can perform analytics almost as well from just the HTTP headers, you don’t need JS at all for fingerprinting, and hijacked NPM modules are probably still present even if there is no JS pushed into the browser.
Curious, how do you do fingerprinting without JS? User agent, header order, etc? How well does it work?
Panopticlick did some of this with headers included, their order, and their timing. Which of course can be defeated without much loss of features. Tor Browser being one example
I wrote about a generalized way to use React, Redux and SSR to make sites that work without JS a short while ago[0] and I’m currently employing that strategy for a side project I’m working on. So far the biggest drawback is not being able to do a payment flow with Stripe Checkout without requiring JS on _my_ service, because Stripe.js is required to redirect a user to the checkout session. [0] https://news.ycombinato…
And my response was a big thank you but some serious doubts. I'm asking for no JS when it is reasonable, and what you are trying to do is accommodate my unreasonable requirements. If I may repost past of what I said there: "I should clarify, I'm only moaning about JS used where it need not be, in the display of text and pictures. Essentially, stativc web pages. There are guys on this thread who are trying to make app…
Pretty much this. If you're actually shipping a web app (canonical example being a HTML5 video game), use Javascript; that's what it's for. A newpaper (/ blog / search engine / forum / user signup / image gallery / video gallery (as opposed to player, although that should have clearly marked links to inert mp4-or-equivalent files) / file hosting service) is not a fucking app, but that doesn't mean nothing is. (Note: I don't know enough about stripe to say anything about danielskogly's specific case.)
I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…
What percentage of city bus riders or public restaurant visitors do you think use the wheelchair ramp?
TBH this comparison is a bit offensive. One can choose to use JS or not, those who are no a wheelchair cannot choose to walk.
I'd like to say that ship has sailed, but in this case it's more like the last rocket launched, Krypton was destroyed, and the last partisans of NoScript are trapped in the Dark Zone, or whatever the thing with General Zod was called. Not that big of a Superman fan.
Yup, not enabling javascript is akin to using an outdated browser for better or for worse.
Leaving javascript running is akin to opening every email attachment you get.
> power modern web experiences So they're going to expect me to leave a major malware and privacy-invasion vector open so they can indulge in creating their 'web experiences'. Nope. This sounds like kids playing around, not professionals working.
Ahahaha come on my guy, effective people get to where they are because they can make good risk/reward assessments. Turning off javascript hasn't been worth the opportunity cost to a "real professional" for decades.
Security researchers and activists in oppressive regimes are professionals. And it's amazing how fast one can end up becoming one when your employer gets badly hacked or your government changes for the worse.
I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…
Well, I hope you then also avoid 3rd party JS and make your own first party served JS free a.k.a. libre., non-minified and readable. Then I could accept your JS to be run on my machine.
If you already do so, thank you for being such a good example.
I built a side project a couple of months ago[1] that’s a PWA-installable interactive experience, but also degrades down to styled information in the absence of JS, and back to raw HTML if CSS fails. It’s surprisingly fun to build in this way. (On another note, choosing to avoid a framework and just use some vanilla JS led to an extremely fast loading site.) [1] https://www.designcritiquecards.com/
congratulations, but how many people have the time to do that? Is it really feasible on big projects?
Similar to the general negative experience with many Electron apps, I hate the JavaScript based rendering experience on some sites. I get very frustrated with reddit (the new UI) and Facebook, both flashing an animation or empty rectangles for a long time and me realizing that the content isn’t going to load at all and hitting the reload button to coax it to render the best time. The experience I get on these sites a…
You're probably aware, but just in case: old.reddit.com gives the old (js-free) interface.
Seriously, kudos to reddit for even if them insist on doing the pointlessly, blatantly wrong thing, at least doing it the right way. I honestly thought they would have pulled some deprecation bullshit by now.
I applaud sites that work without Javascript. The sad reality is that the enormous popularity of SPA frameworks like React and Angular make this possibility a small fraction of important sites — e.g. I don’t know if any banking or investment website that works without JavaScript. Maybe this is less important as app-culture supplants such sites.
Most sites aren't important sites and most sites aren't handling monetary transactions or private information. Most sites have no dynamic content. Most sites don't need javascript at all and all it does it makes things worse.
Most devs need to stop taking the crap tools they're forced to use at their paid job and using them for their personal websites.