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Do the Real Thing

scotthyoung.com

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Re: Do the Real Thing

#61

Post by wallflower »

hymnsfm wrote: post #58
cortesoft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is actually a good thing, though... you have something real you are trying to do, which guides you to what you need to learn. I find it is a lot easier to learn in the pursuit of something I actually want to accomplish rather than studying in a vacuum. So your approach, for example, is better than if you had just picked up a book on key and time signatures and started reading. You first tried to do somet…

True. I wouldn't have known I don't have the competency to sight-sing if I didn't try it first. That said, doing the "real thing" is out of my reach until I level up in other areas.

I’m curious if you have heard about Gnu Solfege. I just read about it here recently via the recent “Ask HN: I'd like to learn vocals, any suggestion on how I can do this?”

https://www.gnu.org/software/solfege/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23359096

Re: Do the Real Thing

#62

Post by hymnsfm »

wallflower wrote: post #61
hymnsfm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I wouldn't have known I don't have the competency to sight-sing if I didn't try it first. That said, doing the "real thing" is out of my reach until I level up in other areas.

I’m curious if you have heard about Gnu Solfege. I just read about it here recently via the recent “Ask HN: I'd like to learn vocals, any suggestion on how I can do this?” https://www.gnu.org/software/solfege/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23359096

No I haven't yet. Thanks for making me aware of it and pointing me to that thread.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#63

Post by gitgud »

zomglings wrote: post #11

Definitely agree with the article, and would like to offer a useful supplement to "doing the real thing": "watch someone very skilled do the real thing". Watching a pro can really accelerate skill acquisition because it will expose you to high quality ideas that would have been difficult to develop on your own. Want to get better at Backgammon/Chess/Go? Play a lot of games (at various time controls). Yes. But also wa…

> Want to get better at programming? Write a lot of programs. Yes. But also read a lot of high quality code written by others.

Well, do this in moderation, as reading "high quality code" can lead to a premature focus on code-quality.

Most "high quality code" is the result of many iterations of ideas and use-cases. And trying to emulate that style can be counter-productive in many cases.

I find going back in the history of the code-base helps you see how simple the project used to be, which is helpful when learning to code.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#64

Post by jkhdigital »

zexodus wrote: post #20

This article reminds me that I don't really know what I want to do in the first place.

Yeah I think that’s something Mr. Young glosses over in his book—it’s hard to muster the courage to suffer through this kind of direct approach when you’re anything less than absolutely committed. I think it takes a certain personality to be able to just pick some random skill and convince yourself that it’s do or die.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#65

Post by jkhdigital »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #57
imheretolearn wrote: post #56

Recently, (or maybe it's just me) I have seen a surge of articles providing advice on $Thing. Most of these articles seem to me an expansion of aphorisms which people have been saying since time immemorial. This reminds of the saying, "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Such articles can be compressed into a common adage that most people are aware of.

Yes. I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When? Getting fluent in French is probably best done without a plan, but just practicing a bunch. But I'm sure you can think of several activities where "just try it" is godawful advice. Who says writing is in the fo…

There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts. Coaches and mentors can be so effective because they consistently deliver the right advice in the right context. Advice from the internet, on the other hand, is almost always mismatched to the context of the reader.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#66

Post by jchook »

kalonis wrote: post #13
zomglings wrote: post #11

Definitely agree with the article, and would like to offer a useful supplement to "doing the real thing": "watch someone very skilled do the real thing". Watching a pro can really accelerate skill acquisition because it will expose you to high quality ideas that would have been difficult to develop on your own. Want to get better at Backgammon/Chess/Go? Play a lot of games (at various time controls). Yes. But also wa…

Just watching someone doing the real thing is one of the most prominent strategies to avoid doing the real thing. It is not enough to watch someone very skilled do the real thing. You have to imitate them: Reading a lot of great novels will not make you a better writer. Instead write a story in the style of any writer you admire and you will learn a lot while still doing the real thing. The same is true for almost an…

Our brains have mirror neurons[1] that allow us to learn by watching.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

Re: Do the Real Thing

#67

Post by jchook »

jkhdigital wrote: post #65
alexandercrohde wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When? Getting fluent in French is probably best done without a plan, but just practicing a bunch. But I'm sure you can think of several activities where "just try it" is godawful advice. Who says writing is in the fo…

There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts. Coaches and mentors can be so effective because they consistently deliver the right advice in the right context. Advice from the internet, on the other hand, is almost always mismatched to the context of the reader.

The advice "there is no such thing as universal advice" is, by its own rule, not universal advice, and therefore serves as its own counter-example.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#68

Post by alexandercrohde »

imheretolearn wrote: post #60
alexandercrohde wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When? Getting fluent in French is probably best done without a plan, but just practicing a bunch. But I'm sure you can think of several activities where "just try it" is godawful advice. Who says writing is in the fo…

>I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When? Yes, they do and there are certain factors you need to consider before saying they don't contain any signal. Some factors are: 1. What is it really trying to say? In your example, try and try again does NOT mean tr…

>> In your example, try and try again does NOT mean try and try the SAME thing again.

Who says? For surfing, "If at first you don't succeed, try try again" may seem to apply. And maybe you get on the board again and nail it. Or maybe you get on the board and get a concussion.

Because aphorisms are just very reductive phrases they contain almost no data. I contrast this with a sentence that has a ton of signal "The average human pregnancy lasts 9 months."

>> don't break your head against a brick wall is usually used in the context of trying to change someone else

I'm not aware of it being specific to the context of people. I think you added, that, which actually makes it closer to what I'm saying, because it's more specific. For a heuristic to be good, it needs to have a clear domain of when it applies and when it doesn't. Otherwise you've just got a box of fortune-cookies and no idea which ones apply.

Re: Do the Real Thing

#69

Post by afterburner »

imheretolearn wrote: post #56

Recently, (or maybe it's just me) I have seen a surge of articles providing advice on $Thing. Most of these articles seem to me an expansion of aphorisms which people have been saying since time immemorial. This reminds of the saying, "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." Such articles can be compressed into a common adage that most people are aware of.

Blogspam

Re: Do the Real Thing

#70

Post by alexandercrohde »

jkhdigital wrote: post #65
alexandercrohde wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When? Getting fluent in French is probably best done without a plan, but just practicing a bunch. But I'm sure you can think of several activities where "just try it" is godawful advice. Who says writing is in the fo…

There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts. Coaches and mentors can be so effective because they consistently deliver the right advice in the right context. Advice from the internet, on the other hand, is almost always mismatched to the context of the reader.

>> There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts.

The interesting thing is some advice is pretty good for almost all-contexts (e.g. "If you feel like killing yourself, don't.")

Some advice is very good for its specific context "When playing chess, a knight is worth about 3 pawns."

Some advice sounds good, but is completely impractical or even bad "Never give up, never surrender." "Dance like nobody is watching"

I find, usually the best tidbits of information (e.g. /r/lifeprotips) don't try to be too brief or cutesy. They are fine being specific "It can be rude to joke about when a married couple is going to have kids. They may already be trying"

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