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Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

protocol.com

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Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#61

Post by kjakm »

dahdum wrote: post #32

Basecamp obviously knew this would go down like this. The cynic in me thinks this controversy was planned from the beginning as a PR / marketing exercise.

I've seen this comment all over the place and I genuinely can't believe people think this. Apple accepted v1.0 of the app. They're rejecting v1.0.1 which just contains some bug fixes. How could anybody predict this? It's also going to damage their long term relationship with Apple (an important partner) and if they lose this fight their entire product is in danger as being unable to access an email service on one of the most popular phones is going to be unsustainable for Hey.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#62

Post by kristianc »

m463 wrote: post #31
villgax wrote: post #3

> We understand that Basecamp has developed a number of apps and many subsequent versions for the App Store for many years, and that the App Store has distributed millions of these apps to iOS users. These apps do not offer in-app purchase — and, consequently, have not contributed any revenue to the App Store over the last eight years. They literally have paid 8 years of Developer Program fees for supporting the AppS…

Isn't that a little like comcast charging websites for access to their customers? What if I bought an iphone, I am ONLY allowed to install apple apps on it, and I want the basecamp app?

> Isn't that a little like comcast charging websites for access to their customers?

Not exactly, as Comcast don’t provide the infrastructure to Basecamp to host and deliver the binary of its app. Basecamp can’t be said to be ‘freeloading’ on Comcast.

Basecamp would come back and say ‘well, we pay our developer fees’ but developer fees don’t differentiate whether Apple has to maintain app updates for hundreds of downloads or millions.

Edit: Was clearly referring to the app binary.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#63

Post by philistine »

rvz wrote: post #17

Maybe they should follow what Netflix is doing, since they don't have in-app purchases in iOS which is why they don't allow registrations at all and force you to sign up on the web. Not sure about Netflix's Android app though, but Google has sort of done this to Epic Games but only allowing logins and no registrations + card checks might bypass the Apple 30% tax.

Be honest. Have you read articles about the subject thoroughly?

Hey is implemented exactly like Netflix. This is exactly why it’s making such a ruckus. Because big streaming giants get Better treatment than the little guy trying to reinvent email.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#64

Post by take_a_breath »

hyko wrote: post #35
Okkef wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could downvote you. What apple is doing is much worse than microsoft ever did, and they deserve to get a big antitrust lawsuit against them. Just because their own rules say 'everybody owes us money' doesn't mean that it's legal.

These aren’t Apple’s rules–they’re ours. It’s the parameters of a free marketplace and flows from the idea of legal ownership of property. Apple has a minority share of the smartphone market, so antitrust does not apply. Antitrust a specific remedy to prevent monopolistic abuses. If I build a high end hotel and the fee is $10,000 a night to stay there, you can’t apply to the Supreme Court to have your bill reduced. I…

This analogy makes no sense. It’s not a business to consumer issue. The problem is Apple running their own marketplace and inconsistently applying the rules they have created for that marketplace.

If the hotel opened a food court and treated the vendors like this, it might be an apt analogy.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#65

Post by libertine »

threeseed wrote: post #49
officemonkey wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We didn't get our cut" should only apply if they add value. What value does the App Store provide Hey?

I take it you have never run a startup. Otherwise you would realise that having an effective and profitable channel to market is one of the most difficult things to achieve. Apple gives you one on a silver platter and for a pretty fair cost per acquisition compared to other channels.

>Apple gives you one on a silver platter and for a pretty fair cost per acquisition compared to other channels.

For the Apple system, isn't that the only available channel to sell and distribute apps? It's not like there are other alternatives, or am I missing something?

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#66

Post by threeseed »

kjakm wrote: post #38
corobo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Access to 20 billion unjailbroken iPhones

Take away those apps and those iPhone's become useless bricks. Apps + developers add huge value to the platform.

I think you are vastly overstating the importance of apps.

Apple could easily remove the App Store tomorrow, sign deals with a dozen or so companies e.g. Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, Snap, Google, Microsoft etc and they would still sell devices.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#67

Post by philistine »

gecko wrote: post #53
rvz wrote: post #17

Maybe they should follow what Netflix is doing, since they don't have in-app purchases in iOS which is why they don't allow registrations at all and force you to sign up on the web. Not sure about Netflix's Android app though, but Google has sort of done this to Epic Games but only allowing logins and no registrations + card checks might bypass the Apple 30% tax.

They did—or at least, are trying to. The issue is Apple is saying, based on unwritten rules, that Netflix is allowed to do it, while Hey isn’t. And that’s the crux of the problem

I’m looking forward to Apple having to argue in front of a legislative body why streaming services are given a different treatment than any other software.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#70

Post by libertine »

drchaim wrote: post #51

I'm probably missing something, but can't Hey just make subscriptions in their page and let the App from free in the App Store? Is the same as gmail, I can pay for a Google Suite, but the app is freely distributed in stores. Basecamp should have great products (I've never used them), but it seems they are using this as a marketing strategy.

Didn't apple pull something similar with Spotify, that tried to direct users to their page for subscription and Apple warned/suspended them for doing so?

Edit: Confirmed.

>Spotify’s complaint against Apple is a good example(1)(2)(3). Apple charges Spotify a 30% fee to use the App Store(4) and limits how it can communicate with its users. Apple is the owner of the iOS platform and the App Store and is a direct competitor of Spotify(5).

source: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2019-00299...

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