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A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

researchgate.net

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Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#61

Post by booleandilemma »

polytely wrote: post #59
scottlocklin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A potentially very effective propaganda tool.

You mean like planting an article into the results for a certain search query, then manufacturing a (news)event that causes someone to want to research that particular subject?

Article submitter here :)

I just want to clarify that I did not find this ResearchGate article by googling for dexamethasone. I hadn't heard of that until now! I found a link to this article on the front page of a certain news site, and thought the fine people of HN would enjoy it.

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#62

Post by scoopertrooper »

motoboi wrote: post #50
scottlocklin wrote: post #43

One of the fun (and a little scary) things about HN is seeing what google trails led people to find the articool in question. In this case, it was almost certainly dexamethasone, which was used in the treatment of this poor lady's tumor, and which was recently revealed, rather unsurprisingly, to be a marginally effective treatment for severe Covid19. I say it's a little scary because it's the sort of thing that one c…

I could not completely understand what you said. But found it interesting anyway. Care to explain?

That's a relief, I thought I was the one having a stroke for a minute there.

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#63

Post by banads »

api wrote: post #58
hprotagonist wrote: post #35

But this is the first and only instance I have come across in which hallucinatory voices sought to reassure the patient of their genuine interest in her welfare, offered her a specific diagnosis (there were no clinical signs that would have alerted anyone to the tumour), directed her to the type of hospital best equipped to deal with her problem, expressed pleasure that she had at last received the treatment they des…

It was a long time ago, but I recall reading once that in some cultures the voices and delusions of schizophrenics tend to be of a more positive nature. In our culture they tend to be almost entirely menacing, paranoid, accusatory, etc. Makes me think about set and setting with psychedelics. Maybe our schizophrenics have menacing delusions because our culture is full of hostility and negativity. There are counterexam…

>It was a long time ago, but I recall reading once that in some cultures the voices and delusions of schizophrenics tend to be of a more positive nature. In our culture they tend to be almost entirely menacing, paranoid, accusatory, etc.

In many tribal cultures, what western psychiatry castigates as schizophrenia, they honor as shamanism.

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#64

Post by dash2 »

marcan_42 wrote: post #22
baxtr wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a quote from Mark Cuban: “Unless you have a reliable, duplicatable, scalable and consistent way to bring potential customers in, you don’t have a business. You have a hobby!” I think it’s very similar in science. It’s difficult to argue that this is science because it seems impossible to design a repeatable experiment which yields the same outcome every time.

Welcome to psychology. Turns out, it's unethical to design "repeatable experiments" when it comes to the human existence, which is why we have to make do with less rigorous forms of science. That doesn't mean it isn't science, it just means it's harder to draw solid conclusions than "just run a repeatable experiment".

This sounds as if you are saying that all psychology experiments are unethical. I'm sure that's not what you meant - expand?

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#65

Post by carapace »

leoh wrote: post #3
carapace wrote: post #2

Needs a "(1997)" in the title. This sort of thing happens all the time, the unusual thing here is that someone wrote it down and got it published.

Fascinating — have any references?

I don't, really, but here's another well-known anecdote:

> On one occasion, Dick was startled by a separate recurrence of the pink beam. It imparted the information to him that his infant son was ill. The Dicks rushed the child to the hospital, where his suspicion was confirmed by professional diagnosis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_K._Dick#Paranormal_expe...

FWIW, I once attended a thing that was sponsored by invisible purple telepathic space dolphins, so... yeah. Just a group hallucination?

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#66

Post by carapace »

caymanjim wrote: post #14
_8j50 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the easiest explanation, it's just more convenient for you. Burde of proof is on the accuser, you can't prove they fabricated or hallucinated and no one can prove their experience to you. If they learned new information with no prior visits to any one capable of diagnosing them then the easiest explanation is their experience was real, especially give that this phenomena has been observed in other historic…

This is the exact opposite of how burden of proof works. An extraordinary claim is being made. The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim. The claim is not only extraordinary, but the anecdote does not include any information indicating research into the origin of the "voices". I don't have to prove anything. I'm saying I don't believe it. The full article contains zero citations, zero clinic…

It's not extraordinary though. Literally every culture has stories of communication with "voices".

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#67

Post by nwienert »

api wrote: post #58
hprotagonist wrote: post #35

But this is the first and only instance I have come across in which hallucinatory voices sought to reassure the patient of their genuine interest in her welfare, offered her a specific diagnosis (there were no clinical signs that would have alerted anyone to the tumour), directed her to the type of hospital best equipped to deal with her problem, expressed pleasure that she had at last received the treatment they des…

It was a long time ago, but I recall reading once that in some cultures the voices and delusions of schizophrenics tend to be of a more positive nature. In our culture they tend to be almost entirely menacing, paranoid, accusatory, etc. Makes me think about set and setting with psychedelics. Maybe our schizophrenics have menacing delusions because our culture is full of hostility and negativity. There are counterexam…

Read Julian Jaynes’ book, here’s a nice recent review:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/01/book-review-origin-of-...

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#68

Post by foobiekr »

bradstewart wrote: post #49
quietbritishjim wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, and sorry for the pedantry, but it's CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning. CO2 (carbdon dioxide) poisoning is also a thing but very hard to do in a domestic scenario, and especially hard to do without noticing because you'd feel very out of breath (too much CO2 in your lungs is exactly what makes you want to take breaths in regular breathing).

Definitely hard to do at home, but it's not all that easy to notice in certain settings. For instance, indoor and greenhouse agriculture where pumping CO2 into the room is routinely done. I'm not sure that I've experienced CO2 poisoning per se, but definitely higher-than-safe levels of it. We were installing new air quality sensors at an indoor farming facility when we (eventually) discovered the existing CO2 alarms…

This is an amazing story. You might find videos of low blood O2 (for example, at altitude or in a hypobaric altitude chamber) kind of interesting as they illustrate exactly that kind of dramatic cognitive decline.

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#69

Post by treeman79 »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #32
treeman79 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I Suffered CO2 poisoning for months. This explanation is believable. My sense of time was screwed up. It got to the point I would often joke about being casualty challenged. (When more lucid) Hallucinations started up from this. A constant sense of doom became the norm. So yea, confused timeline, hallucinations and, and a sense of going to die can make some interesting and unpleasant mental games.

FYI, and sorry for the pedantry, but it's CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning. CO2 (carbdon dioxide) poisoning is also a thing but very hard to do in a domestic scenario, and especially hard to do without noticing because you'd feel very out of breath (too much CO2 in your lungs is exactly what makes you want to take breaths in regular breathing).

Specifically was carbon monoxide. AND Natural gas. Large quantity of both for 3 months.

Unfortunately medical literature for long term natural gas exposure is limited since people tend to explode.

Rental company kept making excuses for smell. Claimed it was not gas.

After 3 months of total health meltdown I called gas company. Their alarms went off at road. Started screaming at us to get away. Guy was amazed any of us were still alive.

As it is, me and at least one kid have permanent changes from it. She’s was gifted, now is borderline special needs.

Re: A difficult case: Diagnosis made by hallucinatory voices (1997)

#70

Post by treeman79 »

StavrosK wrote: post #46
PaulHoule wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended a seminar on geoengineering and carbon capture and storage this semester. At some cost we could capture the CO2 that comes out of a power plant, clean it, compress it to 1500 psi or so, then inject into the ground somewhere. Engineers get bonus points when they use the CO2 to flush out extra oil, since CO2 mixes so well with oil. (Roughnecks have been pumping CO2 out of the ground in Texas and using it for…

I remember reading about the sudden death of a few hundred people in a coastal village way back when, and it looked like the lake belched a CO2 pocket and suffocated everyone. Terrifying, you're suddenly out of breath but don't know why, and then you die without knowing you'd be okay if you stood on a roof or tree.

Is scary. Kids were super hard to wake up though this. Like 2 hours to get them alert on bad days.

Guy from gas company made it clear no one would be waking up in a matter of days

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