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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#61

Post by scarface74 »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #37

Occam's Razor says that they aren't a lot of black people in STEM positions because companies aren't hiring black people in STEM positions. There are plenty of black candidates applying to FAANG companies only to be rejected because "they don't fit in with the culture" or they "weren't Google-y enough", or "they couldn't write a depth-first-search algorithm in less than 2 seconds in front of a whiteboard ("white boar…

For context: I am Black.

I think it’s a pipeline problem. How many Blacks are graduating from top schools in STEM? I didn’t graduate from a top school at all. But that was back in the mid 90s and by choice. I just needed a degree. I knew I could get a job and be competitive with anyone being self taught in both C and a variety of assembly languages.

I just got a job at Amazon under AWS Professional Services. I got a customer facing role as a Black guy. If there were going to be discrimination, that would be where it would be. Because of Covid, the interview was completely virtual. I’m coming from a long 25 year career of working for mostly small companies that no one has ever heard of. All of my AWS experience came from a company with less than 50 people.

I can honestly say that I don’t think I have ever been discriminated against in hiring. I have had maybe 3 rejections in 25 years, plenty of interviews and since I only use recruiters, my resume doesn’t go through the ATS black hole.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#62

Post by scarface74 »

Impossible wrote: post #57
CyanLite2 wrote: post #37

Occam's Razor says that they aren't a lot of black people in STEM positions because companies aren't hiring black people in STEM positions. There are plenty of black candidates applying to FAANG companies only to be rejected because "they don't fit in with the culture" or they "weren't Google-y enough", or "they couldn't write a depth-first-search algorithm in less than 2 seconds in front of a whiteboard ("white boar…

Nitpick, FAANG hasn't been around nearly long enough to have enough parents with workforce age children for this to be true. Especially not for them to have gone through recent (last 5-10 years) interview processes that people complain about. I know some of the first Black software engineers at Facebook and none of them have kids (they're early 30s). The rest of it is true, people are discouraged both by bias in inte…

Apple and Microsoft have both been around since the early 80s. Yes I realize that Microsoft isn’t included in the FAANG acronym, but it’s much larger than Netflix.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#63

Post by rootusrootus »

phpdragon wrote: post #4

This article says white people are underrepresented in earning science and engineering bachelor degrees. Lol.

The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people don't participate in college as much as you'd expect based on their prevalence in society, but it's also okay to say that the reason Asians are over-represented is because culturally they've made it a huge priority to attain as much education as possible.

Maybe we should focus less on trying to identify and somehow solve systemic racism and more about making it culturally acceptable and desirable for black people to enter the STEM fields. Highlight the superstars in STEM who are kicking ass (e.g. Neil deGrasse Tyson) and encouraging people to identify with him and motivate them to work even harder.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#64

Post by blisterpeanuts »

downerending wrote: post #22
walterman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you implying?

I read his comment as "inherent racial disparities in ability". For basketball, I doubt you'll find many that disagree. For STEM, or computer programming and math at least, it's far harder to know. Certainly there are very few black people in tech/math, at least at the higher levels. Perhaps part of the problem is that empty virtue signaling (like banning the terms "master" and "slave") is easy, but actually doing th…

I'm implying no such thing. There's no gene for basketball, just as there's no gene for engineering. Yet, certain populations excel at one or the other. Aptitude arises out of cultural and socioeconomic factors. Clearly, science and engineering are not strong factors in some populations' culture and lifestyle. Whereas, it is a lifestyle from an early age for hundreds of millions of whites and Asians, mostly boys. There could be a genetic component but such has not been proven.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#65

Post by crooked-v »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #31
crooked-v wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro basketball's viewership is also majority non-white, so there's probably some feedback loop effects going on with the people interested in becoming players in the first place (which then influences the audience, and so on).

Do you have data to back this up? My understanding was that the viewership was predominately White/Asian/Hispanic with black being the minority.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/01/25/nfl-isnt-divisive-spor...

> During the NBA's 2016-2017 regular season, 66 percent of TV viewers were racial minorities, according to data from ratings provider Nielsen: Blacks made up 47 percent of the audience, Hispanics 11 percent and Asians 8 percent.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#66

Post by joyj2nd »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #37

Occam's Razor says that they aren't a lot of black people in STEM positions because companies aren't hiring black people in STEM positions. There are plenty of black candidates applying to FAANG companies only to be rejected because "they don't fit in with the culture" or they "weren't Google-y enough", or "they couldn't write a depth-first-search algorithm in less than 2 seconds in front of a whiteboard ("white boar…

I disagree. Most companies are actually trying to INCREASE diversity, be it based on skin colour or gender. So it may actually be much EASIER to get accepted in this companies if you are black.

I know in some STEM fields (not all in STEM is CS), you have MUCH MUCH higher chances to land a good job at a big company if you are female. But being female in medicine or law buys you nothing since there is no imbalance.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#67

Post by crooked-v »

rootusrootus wrote: post #55
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

> rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools I struggle to see how this is wrong. It's not any different than rich people buying private education, though it makes it easier for non-rich folks to try and find the cheapest place in that district so they can benefit from the well-funded schools. It seems popular to think that people should have equal opportunity, independent of any other factors. But from the…

> But from the perspective of a parent, why should I be disallowed from providing my own kids every possible advantage I can afford?

Because it's bad for society, and because there's a long since established moral precedent in favor of things that may make life slightly worse for any given individual but better for a large majority of everyone.

It's also worth keeping in mind that there's a massive difference between "rich" and "ultra-rich". "Rich" and "poor" are, if anything, closer to each other than either is to "ultra-rich", and spreading out the spending of that last category would dramatically benefit an overwhelming majority of people without hurting the schools of ultra-rich areas in a way that, frankly, anyone should actually care about.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#68

Post by deogeo »

rootusrootus wrote: post #63
phpdragon wrote: post #4

This article says white people are underrepresented in earning science and engineering bachelor degrees. Lol.

The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people don't participate in college as much as you'd expect based on their prevalence in society, but it's also okay to say that the reason Asians are over-represented is because culturally they've made it a huge priority to attain as much education as possible. Maybe we sho…

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege?

What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority?

Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#69

Post by nitwit005 »

Udik wrote: post #54
nitwit005 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jews must have transcendent superhuman athleticism then. Basketball used to be dominated by immigrant Jews before World War 2.

Not sure about their athleticism, but it's true that they have been awarded Nobel prizes between 5000% and 20000% of their population share (depending on the discipline), and it's time to put an end to this blatant systemic racism. /s

Much like the basketball dominance was caused by Jews playing the sport in large numbers, the dominance of scientific prizes was largely a result of them going into scientific fields in large numbers.

Any decent sized ethnic group could dominate a profession if they wanted to.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#70

Post by Impossible »

scarface74 wrote: post #62
Impossible wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpick, FAANG hasn't been around nearly long enough to have enough parents with workforce age children for this to be true. Especially not for them to have gone through recent (last 5-10 years) interview processes that people complain about. I know some of the first Black software engineers at Facebook and none of them have kids (they're early 30s). The rest of it is true, people are discouraged both by bias in inte…

Apple and Microsoft have both been around since the early 80s. Yes I realize that Microsoft isn’t included in the FAANG acronym, but it’s much larger than Netflix.

True, this could apply to Apple or Microsoft. Microsoft especially had poor interview practices in the past (lightbulb puzzle style brainteasers). Anecdotally I don't know of any Black parents that discouraged their children from going into tech due to a poor or biased interview experience. I know many Black engineers with a parent that was an engineer and encouraged them to go into th field. Lack of awareness, many people did not know computer programmer was a job growing up, is a bigger issue.
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