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Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

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Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#61

Post by pmontra »

bzb4 wrote: post #49
pmontra wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a super user but the last time I tried to use Debian as a desktop OS the experience was so disappointing that I reformatted to Ubuntu. I gave a shot to KDE and reformatted again to Gnome after a couple of weeks. That was 2014. I removed Debian as a possibility, KDE maybe someday. On a server Debian is OK.

What didn’t you like about Debian on the desktop? Old software?

I don't remember exactly, it was 6 years ago. I remember the general feeling of having to do too much work to get a usable desktop. Maybe the settings? Keep in mind that I don't need anything fancy. I liked Gnome 2 and I stayed with Gnome Fallback until last year when there were enough Gnome Shell extensions to bend it to what I like a desktop to be.

Maybe Debian is on par now. Old software can be worked around with containers and third party apt repositories. I often do that on Ubuntu too.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#62

Post by pjfin123 »

If Linux is going to have any chance of replacing OSX or Windows for the vast majority of users it needs to have a uniform executable which Snapcraft seems like the best candidate for. Without a uniform executable a lot of developers won't target Linux which is a deal-breaker for a lot of people. Clearly its preferable to install common packages from a standard package manager, and there should be better controls of how snaps get updated for power users, but most potential Linux users want apps that work like apps on their phones. This means you install it from a GUI app store, have access to proprietary apps, and then the apps keep themselves up to date.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#63

Post by e2le »

RealStickman_ wrote: post #40
dheera wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also these "AppImage" files. They launch, but there is no guidance on how to install them to the system. Launching Chrome: I click the Chrome icon. Launching PrusaSlicer: Start a terminal and type chmod 755 ~/Downloads/PrusaSlicer-2.2.0+linux-x64-202003211856.AppImage ~/Downloads/PrusaSlicer-2.2.0+linux-x64-202003211856.AppImage That doesn't seem like progress to me from a UX perspective.

From the limited experience I had with an AppImage I found they usually create a .desktop file to make the program searchable. Though I have to agree that there is no really simple, gui way to install AppImages.

If you want a centralised repository of AppImages you might as well just use the distributions package manager for that.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#65

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bzb4 wrote: post #31
billme wrote: post #19

Largest issue I have with Snap is that it appears to assume the owner of a system is not in best position to make choices for their own systems. Sure, this might be true for the average user, but it is toxic to the “super user” community that’s in the best position to help support the larger community and may end up pushing them away. Snap at the very least should have an opt-out feature, if not be opt-in during an i…

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

I'd expect users who go into Debian expecting some power-user version of Ubuntu to be disappointed. To be happy on Debian, you need to adopt their philosophy that stability is better than having the latest-and-greatest.

For those unfamiliar, Debian releases come out about once every two years, at which point all software in Debian's repositories is frozen at its current version. Software receives security updates between releases, but nothing else.

I personally think this is wonderful, and I would absolutely use Debian if I was interested in switching to Linux (which I'm not, at the moment). Constant change is inherently frustrating, even when the changes themselves are a net positive (they often aren't). Debian's approach provides a level of reliability and consistency that is sorely lacking in most modern software.

So, while I also recommend Debian, I do so only if you too agree with the above paragraph.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#66

Post by billme »

bzb4 wrote: post #49
pmontra wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a super user but the last time I tried to use Debian as a desktop OS the experience was so disappointing that I reformatted to Ubuntu. I gave a shot to KDE and reformatted again to Gnome after a couple of weeks. That was 2014. I removed Debian as a possibility, KDE maybe someday. On a server Debian is OK.

What didn’t you like about Debian on the desktop? Old software?

I personally use any distro based on the situation.

As others have pointed out, common reasoning behind picking a distro include: hardware requirements, existing ecosystems, end user, package management, configurableness, security, long-term support, ease of learning, driver support, core dev team’s opinions, funding, etc.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#67

Post by Enginerrrd »

bzb4 wrote: post #31
billme wrote: post #19

Largest issue I have with Snap is that it appears to assume the owner of a system is not in best position to make choices for their own systems. Sure, this might be true for the average user, but it is toxic to the “super user” community that’s in the best position to help support the larger community and may end up pushing them away. Snap at the very least should have an opt-out feature, if not be opt-in during an i…

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

I have to disagree. I've used debian for years. I stand by the assertion that it's a wonderful platform for a server, but marginal for a desktop.

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#68

Post by m4rtink »

Macha wrote: post #20
rlpb wrote: post #9

> The backend is proprietary. GitHub is proprietary. I understand that some people don't accept that either. But if you accept and use GitHub, then you should have no problem with snaps on this basis. Also, on this topic, consider this quote[1]: "We did that experiment with Launchpad; the people who said they wouldn’t use it because it wasn’t open source were the same people promoting a closed source alternative. Whe…

If you don't like Github (or if they make a change in the future that makes you dislike Github), you can use Gitlab CE, Gitea, Gitorius, git over ssh, etc. all open source options while still using the upstream git client. If you don't like the Snap Store, well, get coding and be prepared to fork the client also.

And for the record Flatpak does not have any such limitation - while many people use Flathub to host flatpal repos, there are many more Flatpak repos available, including Distro hosted ones (Fedora has a system for building Flatpaks from Fedora RPMs and hosting the resulting Flatpak repos).

Re: Snaps are an anti-pattern on Ubuntu

#69

Post by megavolcano »

pmontra wrote: post #36
bzb4 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

I'm a super user but the last time I tried to use Debian as a desktop OS the experience was so disappointing that I reformatted to Ubuntu. I gave a shot to KDE and reformatted again to Gnome after a couple of weeks. That was 2014. I removed Debian as a possibility, KDE maybe someday. On a server Debian is OK.

These days Debian Gnome and default Ubuntu are so similar these days the difference is negligible once you installed 1 or 2 plugins that mimic the Ubuntu functionality. Ubuntu's gnome is just plain gnome with a few in-house extensions made by Canonical - hardly worth it in my opinion while Debian is rock solid. Buster (the current stable) is nearly perfect IMO.
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