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Anxiety in product development

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Re: Anxiety in product development

#61

Post by aeyes »

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

A few years ago I picked up a dumb mechanical second job at a rental store where I worked ~20h/month after work an on weekends. I didn't need the money but I needed the feeling of truly getting something done.

When I left the store at night, every customer had been served, every piece of equipment had been cleaned, the money had been counted. I was just done. It felt great.

I solve problems every day, I never get done, every day its something new that needs fixing. Every year that passes I feel more and more that I'm just not made for this kind of work :(.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#62

Post by jagged-chisel »

Minor49er wrote: post #60
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

If the theological content is unnecessary, then who are you expecting to grant you the things requested in the prayer?

Oneself.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#63

Post by bdamm »

Minor49er wrote: post #60
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

If the theological content is unnecessary, then who are you expecting to grant you the things requested in the prayer?

That is an exercise left up to the user. It could be the air if that's what they decide is the granter. The point is that it isn't you. For some reason that flip works for a lot of folks.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#64

Post by cortesoft »

Minor49er wrote: post #60
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

If the theological content is unnecessary, then who are you expecting to grant you the things requested in the prayer?

It is more like a mantra to remind yourself.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#65

Post by codr7 »

wnmurphy wrote: post #50
codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

> To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. LOVE this.

And as a result, the system is a total success so far.

Without any kind of specifications or design meetings beyond a 5 minute chat here and there.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#66

Post by codr7 »

mjayhn wrote: post #55
gazelle21 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im on the opposite side. I worked at a restaurant for 12 years and it was the worst time of my life. I would constantly get called into work at 3 am due to random people not showing up. Inventory, dealing with 20+ people who don't care about the job. Terrible customers, and horrible people really left my bitter. To top it all off I was stresseed out of my mind and broke. Im a dev now and its deff stressful but doesn'…

Yeah this feels very American Beauty, rose-tinted glasses. Kevin Spacey goes to work in a drive thru stress-free because he doesn't care about the job or need the money and is sick of responsibilities. Same thing here. Except we needed that job and had to be responsible because we didn't want to make $5.25/hr or have terrible shifts. You're only there for 2 weeks, you know you're only there for 2 weeks and everyone k…

I wish, but weed is very difficult to find around here ;)

The car is provided by the restaurant, and it's large scale corporate customers so no tips.

I make enough money to survive, a chance to make people happy and get free food. I've been doing this for several months now.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#67

Post by smoe »

hateful wrote: post #25
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I've always loved that (also, sans theological content). It's good advice for anyone. It's strong statement because in one sentence it can give someone something that a lot of people may not have - self awareness in the face of anxiety.

I have mixed feelings about the quote, at least as far as I understand it or have heard it interpreted.

Specifically when it comes to systematic change, be that in a code base, a companies organisation or a countries political system. The mindsets of people go trough the spectrum of such systems being as easy to change as snipping a finger (and that doing so is a good idea) to it being impossible or dangerous so you should not even try.

From my perspective, pretty much anything can be changed in any direction. But it might take enormous effort to do so, way more than one could do alone and I might not even be around anymore when the change "finishes". While I could think of a hundred things that I would like to change or actually resist change, I only have the time and energy to focus on one or two at a time.

So for me, having overworked myself in the past, it boils down to consciously think of what I should and can burden myself with, when I should give up something and what the realistic outcomes are to find a good mix between ambition, effectiveness and health.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#68

Post by mjayhn »

codr7 wrote: post #66
mjayhn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this feels very American Beauty, rose-tinted glasses. Kevin Spacey goes to work in a drive thru stress-free because he doesn't care about the job or need the money and is sick of responsibilities. Same thing here. Except we needed that job and had to be responsible because we didn't want to make $5.25/hr or have terrible shifts. You're only there for 2 weeks, you know you're only there for 2 weeks and everyone k…

I wish, but weed is very difficult to find around here ;) The car is provided by the restaurant, and it's large scale corporate customers so no tips. I make enough money to survive, a chance to make people happy and get free food. I've been doing this for several months now.

Ah this was 20 years ago for me, I'm glad delivery driving has changed some for bigger/wealthier deliveries. I worked for tiny little pizza shops so they just gave us a shirt and a car topper and told us to deal with car insurance ourselves.

It is a relaxing job when it's going well and not rushed. I like driving around aimlessly.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#69

Post by karmakaze »

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

I'm reminded of that time I got an after-work part-time job at a higher-end sports store. At first they might not have wanted to hire me for being overqualified and leaving, but they had trouble hiring anyway so there I was. They provided a full week of training on textiles and other things I found fascinating. Surprisingly, it was actually quite enjoyable. I just talked to customers about products and things and there was really no preparation or follow-up after the day is done.

The only stressful parts were getting there on time after work (because I tend to linger at work doing that one last thing) and the parking tickets because it was so limited and some spots required top-up payments (before apps). I ended up in tennis-wear because a mature person giving frank opinions of how things look on people (mostly women shopping) seems effective. Anyway I lasted longer than most of the younger hires and gave it up part way through the winter because driving/parking in that was just too much. Maybe something like that but outdoors might be a great thing to try.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#70

Post by perfmode »

Minor49er wrote: post #60
neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

If the theological content is unnecessary, then who are you expecting to grant you the things requested in the prayer?

It is an appeal to one's Self.
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