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University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

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Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#61

Post by _23sd »

hpoe wrote: post #3

I know some people protest measures that are considered more "objective" over measures that are more "holistic", whether this is in school admittance, performance evaluation, promotion consideration, interviewing, determining welfare benefits, choosing who makes the rules and governs. However it has been my experience that whenever an explicit test or hierarchy is removed another shadow one builds up that is more sub…

I worry that "holistic" admissions in universities with highly competitive admissions are already disadvantaging groups that aren't culturally aligned with university administrators and their donors: Asian Americans, people from the South and rural areas regardless of race, and people brought up in religious households where most time spent on "extracurricular activities" is church-related. I personally think that people pushing against standardized tests and for holistic admissions have good intentions and aren't trying to systemically ensure that all students at prestigious and elite universities in the US talk, think, and act like them, but I can't blame anyone for thinking so. And I worry that will be the main result while the inequities they seek to fix will be obscured rather than improved.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#62

Post by harryh »

usui wrote: post #23

Yes, finally! As someone who underwent the standardized testing grind, I have been waiting for an announcement like this by a university system for years. I understand that there needs to be some standardized way to objectively score students, because allocating college seats to students seems to be an induced scarcity problem. However, as someone who scored highly and is currently studying computer science at UC Ber…

I ultimately feel like my time was wasted because the tests have almost no relation to any of my studies in class.

The SAT is basically a somewhat disguised IQ test and I'm quite confident that intelligence was related to the studies in your classes.

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#63

Post by [deleted] »

MattGaiser wrote: post #55
anon102010 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha.. I think you have this backwards! If you think money can buy a good SAT score - go make some. Reality? Much easier to pay for a trip to "volunteer" in africa or at the local hospital, get on sports teams etc etc. If you have $$ being head of club X is a cakewalk! I had life changing SAT scores, and while prep helps, that slacker kid isn't getting 1600

Money can help you craft a heck of a lot of evidence of leadership.

[deleted]

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#64

Post by [deleted] »

corrupt_measure wrote: post #22

>Admissions tests, allegedly biased against minority students, will be phased out over five years Why are we lumping minorities into one group when we know that many minority groups score better than average on standardized tests than the general population. Asian Americans, Nigerian Americans, Jewish people, etc all do very well. In a world where the wealthy have ever more advantages in college admissions, standardi…

[deleted]

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#65

Post by MattGaiser »

Shoue wrote: post #58
awillen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% - these students are going to be compared to each other somehow, and it's always going to be imperfect and favor those who are better off. Still, these tests are at least relatively objective, and if you remove them the kids will be compared with less objective measures that allow for more bias to be introduced. The SAT/ACT are the worst form of college admission criteria very much in the…

Finland, often touted as the best in education, does not use SAT. The same can be said for many other European countries with excellent education. Are you implying there is no correlation? Have you looked at their systems before making a claim such as "haven't come up with anything better"?

Finland has its own national exam. Many European countries have something like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriculation_exam_(Finland)

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#67

Post by jdashg »

mc32 wrote: post #51
hpoe wrote: post #3

I know some people protest measures that are considered more "objective" over measures that are more "holistic", whether this is in school admittance, performance evaluation, promotion consideration, interviewing, determining welfare benefits, choosing who makes the rules and governs. However it has been my experience that whenever an explicit test or hierarchy is removed another shadow one builds up that is more sub…

One thing I’d like to see is freezing grade inflation. A more normal distribution curve for grades rather than an abnormal amount being rated A/A+.

You can't without standardized metrics, is the problem! If no one's failing, must someone always get a D?

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#68

Post by remarkEon »

anon102010 wrote: post #48
remarkEon wrote: post #33

That sound you hear is panicked elites, rushing to the "side door" of the UC system in an attempt to figure out how best to influence their kid's probability of admission since paying a few grand for prep sessions (for piece of mind, mostly) on what's a pretty darn good measure of academic aptitude is a waste of everyone's time, now that the test is rendered meaningless ... until California develops their own. I'm su…

Haha.. I think you have this backwards! If you think money can buy a good SAT score - go make some. Reality? Much easier to pay for a trip to "volunteer" in africa or at the local hospital, get on sports teams etc etc. If you have $$ being head of club X is a cakewalk! I had life changing SAT scores, and while prep helps, that slacker kid isn't getting 1600

I think we're agreeing here. I don't think money buys a good SAT score (I'm willing to read something that suggests otherwise). Wealthy elites do all of the above poverty tourism as well, but if they can redirect those funds to other "holistic" activities that have nothing to do with academic aptitude it's easier to hide the mediocrity in a "stellar resume".

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#69

Post by Rebelgecko »

Shoue wrote: post #58
awillen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% - these students are going to be compared to each other somehow, and it's always going to be imperfect and favor those who are better off. Still, these tests are at least relatively objective, and if you remove them the kids will be compared with less objective measures that allow for more bias to be introduced. The SAT/ACT are the worst form of college admission criteria very much in the…

Finland, often touted as the best in education, does not use SAT. The same can be said for many other European countries with excellent education. Are you implying there is no correlation? Have you looked at their systems before making a claim such as "haven't come up with anything better"?

Would you mind explaining the difference? From a perfunctory search online it looks like Finland also has a system of university entrance exams (although of course theirs aren't called the SAT)

Re: University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT

#70

Post by harryh »

nimbius wrote: post #57

Ibram X Kendi has an excellent book, "Stamped from the Beginning" that does a great job of explaining how SAT and ACT tests were really only ever meaningful as a barrier to class mobility for blacks in the United states. in the 21st century it does the same thing. By keeping test prep out of public school and forcing takers to invest up to a thousand dollars on a classroom instruction for the test (which often promis…

SAT test prep has a very small impact on scores.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/after-service/201903...

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