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Rust/WinRT Public Preview

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#61

Post by dtech »

drej wrote: post #56
cs702 wrote: post #15

You have to hand it to Microsoft: It may be the only large software company that doesn't seem susceptible to not-invented-here syndrome. It's true that Microsoft historically has been an intensely competitive company, often trying to undermine competing technologies, e.g., with "embrace and extend" strategies. But whenever a competing technology -- whether a language, or a framework, or an application -- gains adopti…

As much as I appreciate what Microsoft is doing here, your NIH praise is not entirely well targeted - look at this research project from Microsoft, which aims to build a slightly different Rust. https://github.com/microsoft/verona

How is a research proof of NIH? I guess C++ or Java should never have existed because how dare another programming language use that "OOP" concept Smalltalk popularized

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#62

Post by AQuantized »

fortran77 wrote: post #53
29athrowaway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me introduce you to Steve Ballmer, the CEO before the current one, Satya Nadella: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_... He was CEO of Microsoft until 2014, that is, 6 years ago. Microsoft changed strategies because they tried everything they possible could to counter open source and Linux and lost. Now they are forced to play nice. Being forced to be nice is not the same as being nice ou…

They _lost_? They have a 1.36 trillion USD Market cap (today). That's more than Apple's 1.29 trillion USD Market cap. It's hilarious how people on hacker news live in this bubble where Microsoft has faded away into irrelevance. And they're also very good. I'm running Windows 10 right now on a dual-monitor, dual NVidia GPU, dual Xeon system and everything "just works."

Saying they "lost" in this context means they got to a point where it was clear capitulation to open source was the obvious play.

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#63

Post by KeBugCheckEx »

Koshkin wrote: post #48
blinkingled wrote: post #7

https://github.com/robmikh/minesweeper-rs - I just love how they brilliantly avoided mixing up C++/COM things into this. Tough one to pull when you're dealing with bindings for a foreign language. The code looks fairly standard Rust (except maybe for the winrt::import that looks like Go?). > If you are familiar with Rust, you will notice this looks far more like Rust than it looks like C++ or C#. Notice the snake_cas…

> brilliantly avoided mixing up C++/COM I remember VB6 was also exceptionally good at this.

Actually a lot in COM was made to work on vb. COM string type is BSTR which stands for Basic STRing.

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#64

Post by hota_mazi »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #52
hota_mazi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COM is a fantastic invention and implementation. Granted, it was pretty painful in C and somewhat in C++, but all the other languages (VB and C# mostly, but plenty of others) really unlock the power of COM. Nothing like that remotely exists on Linux or macOS.

Nothing like that remotely exists on Linux or macOS. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co...

There have been plenty of attempts to emulate what COM does.

All operating systems have some sort of object model and sharing API's, but neither macOS nor Linux have anywhere near the thriving ecosystem and actual cooperation model between applications that Windows has.

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#65

Post by KeBugCheckEx »

pjmlp wrote: post #25
xrd wrote: post #6

I stopped reading at "The Windows Runtime is based on Component Object Model (COM) APIs..." Is that a bad choice on my part? I see COM and think of OLE, CORBA and I remember that I'm old and going to die pretty soon (within the next 40-50 years almost assuredly). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model

Yes it is. After the whole political disaster that was Longhorn, the Windows team decided to rebuilt Longhorn ideas, originally based on .NET, and redo them with COM. So while many outside Windows have considered COM dead, actually since Vista all major Windows APIs have been provided as COM interfaces, the large majority of Win32 surface has been frozen since Windows XP. With WinRT/UA/UAP/UWP they have gone back to…

Historical note: first versions of .NET were called "COM+ 3.0".

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#66

Post by temac »

contextfree wrote: post #33
alkonaut wrote: post #18

Never really understood whether WinRT binds me to store apps, sandboxes, appx and so on. Can I develop a single windows app with this that runs on Windows 10 desktop as a win32 app does (such as a plugin to another application where I can’t can’t decide the deployment model)?

WinRT, as in the API/ABI shape, at this point really isn't tied to any aspect of the UWP app model (other than that existing UWP-related APIs tend to be newer and more likely to use it). Third-party WinRT component activation used to depend on app packaging but that dependency was removed last year: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2019/04/30/enhanc... In general what used to be various facets of the "monol…

> on the other hand, only UWP CoreWindows can make use of UWP shell integration features like fullscreen and picture-in-picture

What are the practical advantages of fullscreening / PIP'ing thanks to UWP as compared to what you can achieve without?

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#68

Post by winter_blue »

hota_mazi wrote: post #64
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing like that remotely exists on Linux or macOS. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co...

There have been plenty of attempts to emulate what COM does. All operating systems have some sort of object model and sharing API's, but neither macOS nor Linux have anywhere near the thriving ecosystem and actual cooperation model between applications that Windows has.

Yea, this is so true. It would be amazing if some standard similar to COM could unify the Linux community.

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#69

Post by Koshkin »

fortran77 wrote: post #53
29athrowaway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me introduce you to Steve Ballmer, the CEO before the current one, Satya Nadella: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_... He was CEO of Microsoft until 2014, that is, 6 years ago. Microsoft changed strategies because they tried everything they possible could to counter open source and Linux and lost. Now they are forced to play nice. Being forced to be nice is not the same as being nice ou…

They _lost_? They have a 1.36 trillion USD Market cap (today). That's more than Apple's 1.29 trillion USD Market cap. It's hilarious how people on hacker news live in this bubble where Microsoft has faded away into irrelevance. And they're also very good. I'm running Windows 10 right now on a dual-monitor, dual NVidia GPU, dual Xeon system and everything "just works."

> dual-monitor, dual NVidia GPU

Not exactly thanks to Microsoft.

Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview

#70

Post by drej »

dtech wrote: post #61
drej wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I appreciate what Microsoft is doing here, your NIH praise is not entirely well targeted - look at this research project from Microsoft, which aims to build a slightly different Rust. https://github.com/microsoft/verona

How is a research proof of NIH? I guess C++ or Java should never have existed because how dare another programming language use that "OOP" concept Smalltalk popularized

That's not at all a point I'm making. OP praised Microsoft for embracing Rust and making it work well on Windows and thanked them for not doing their own thing and instead supporting an existing project. So I'm just pointing out to a very recent endeavour that goes against all of that. I just enjoyed the irony of it all, that's it.

Not saying anything about anything else.

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