Live data from Hacker News

Career advice for people with bad luck

chiefofstuff.substack.com

61–70 of 511 posts

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#61

This seems like a good thread in which to try to solicit some advice, since it's at least tangentially related. I was terminated from my last job. In my opinion it was due to my chronic and major depression that I have since been seeking extensive treatment (medication, several months rent in therapy) for. I say "in my opinion" because I really can't rule out that I'm just a lazy, crappy developer who is trying to us…

> Obviously the gap is a bit of a red flag that I've been candid about to potential employers

Well, I would address this by actually improving your situation: start reading the code from open source projects in your sort of headspace, and set some goal that requires you to do work visible to the public. If you're unemployed, you should have plenty of time to do that.

I get that clinical issues will get in the way of that, but I'm also sure that if you're getting help, you should have some strategies to set aside some time every day. It is absolutely worth it.

> Do I tackle it proactively by outright telling everyone I was canned?

Maybe not that way, but if you have some good evidence you did soul searching and made a daily effort to sharpen your skills and understand how you got yourself into this mess, then that'll go a long way with a decent employer.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#62

This seems like a good thread in which to try to solicit some advice, since it's at least tangentially related. I was terminated from my last job. In my opinion it was due to my chronic and major depression that I have since been seeking extensive treatment (medication, several months rent in therapy) for. I say "in my opinion" because I really can't rule out that I'm just a lazy, crappy developer who is trying to us…

You're right to be concerned - it is a red flag. It's something I'd ask about if I were interviewing you. However, it's _not_ a dealbreaker: I've hired people who've been fired, with longer gaps than yours. You can recover from this. When you get asked about this, your interviewer is going to be looking for a few things: - are you honest about what happened self-reflective about the causes, and take ownership of the…

Thank you kindly for the extensive answer.

> You don't need to -- and shouldn't -- go into specifics about the medical side, but you certainly can talk about things you've learned to keep yourself engaged and focused at work.

This is very helpful. You touched on something I've been conflicted about, namely how to navigate being open about my situation without being open about the specifics of my medical condition (I'm not averse to it, but from my research online it's my understanding that sharing the nitty gritty details doesn't help either party partly due to potential legal issues).

> I've hired people who've been fired, with longer gaps than yours. You can recover from this.

This is very reassuring to hear :)

I'm expecting more than a few negative responses from employers, just like I would in good times, but my mind has also been drifting to worst case scenarios where literally nobody is willing to hire me for development again, so it's good to hear that there's still hope :)

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#63
Its been impossible for me to get a tech job in the last 6 months, I stopped with the global COVID outbreak.

In the past I used to have 1 month of unemployement max, from the time I reached out to the first recruiter (internal or third party), to actually starting a job.

Now recruiters all tap me for Level 5's and Level 6's and reach out within 24 hours of my cold submission through their websites - after the disclaimers all say "expect 4-6 weeks for reply".

At first I realized I needed to brush up on Leetcode, what people are actually looking for in System Design interviews, and even behavioral/leadership stuff. A few educational SaaS subscriptions later, I find it all really fascinating. Although when I see the answers to a lot of "hard" problems, I really question my abstract problem solving capabilities. But I know this is not what happens on the job, thats the kicker, but I have accepted that my full time job was getting good at the interview job.

Later on, after I was solving the brain teasers in 5 minutes in the coderpad/in browser compiler, and asking "is there another part to the problem" and getting no, STILL to be rejected, I realized this was not the best use of my time.

I have no idea what people are looking for, maybe I need to delete all my online profiles and pretend my resume has half of the experience (Founder, small acquisition, probably too public and nobody can say so. Maybe they expected a savant and my moderately above average interview performance wasn't good enough.. for me. Seems like a trap for founders.)

I didn't want lower comp ranges and was at least getting interviewed by everyone imaginable... ? I was just about ready to lower my ask, until COVID hit and realized I can't get evicted, my health insurance won't get cancelled, my phone bill and my internet won't either. I don't even want to see what offers look like right now, and there are a ton of other priorities. Low key, I only needed time, but after how gamified leetcoding has become it started becoming a point of pride for me to get accepted. But I don't really need golden handcuffs, I would stay for the 1 year cliff, maybe. I don't think this was oozing through my fascade in interviews, of course I'm passionate about your flying scooter fintech platform :D (eye roll), but feel free to think thats why I was getting rejected.

In my notes it wasn't all rejections. Some (VC backed, and also mid-size) companies said they cancelled the position after talking with me and realizing they needed a completely different role, or the hiring manager didn't really have as much autonomy over the role they thought and the company focused their efforts on another team. In others (Big Tech) they didn't even know I wasn't already in the company, and therefore I was at an inherent disadvantage and pulled harder from internal pool. (Other big tech does matchmaking after an offer).

All I have are anecdotes. I had friend and founder referrals to their current startups, every "in" you could imagine, and still rejections. The silver lining? I did get exposed to Tech Lead, and his soap opera of a life is very engaging! The people you meet along the way, right?

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#64

> The company is not your family. Some of the people in the company are your friends in the current context. It’s like your dorm in college. Hopefully some of them will still be your friends after. But don’t stay because you’re comfortable. This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone…

> It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together.

Isn't that how most people form friends normally though? Through a shared experience? Especially a tough or formative one? Friends you meet at school, in your first year at uni, in bootcamp, on a sports team, these are how most people meet their life-long friends.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#65
post #41
post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

Yeah, I really feel sad when I see those articles and comments telling you not to share anything that you don't want your boss to know with your colleagues, or even better ignore them completely and automatically treat as deadly competition. If you cannot trust anybody and have difficulties with assessing if someone won't turn his back on you, it may be a problem with your social skills, not with other people. This k…

There are definitely personal details that are dangerous for you to talk about with your co workers. It is still legal to fire someone for being gay or trans in a significant minority of states. There are two Supreme Court cases right now purely because of workplace bigotry.

I also don’t know how safe it would be to disclose having a disability or chronic condition in the workplace.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#66
post #35

My advice is to do a startup as early in your career as possible. Then you'll feel failure and the emptiness as it hits the skids. It's a life lesson in a few months because startups that fail usually tip over the cliff real fast.

In my experience the worst start ups don't hit the skids fast. They kind of keep bumping along, often for years. Neither growing much, nor dying, nor making much money, nor losing enough to go out of business. I even co-founded one of these a few years ago. If you're in one of these my advice is to recognise it and quit.

Those kinds of startups should have been lifestyle businesses, but someone convinced the founder it was unicorn or nothing.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#67
I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like:

- You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID

- Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that magical person who can strap a booster rocket to your career/company

- You don't have a resilient financial and mental safety net in the form of good friends/family early in your career that enables you to take risks, or you got dealt a bad hand in the form of things like dependents or health issues and simply can't afford to take risks

- Despite all your work, you get blindsided by things completely out of your control. Ex. a big company straight up rips off your product/service/side gig or an executive at your company guts your project/department

- You don't have the magic paper credentials to get you through the doors at places you want to go because you didn't know you needed them earlier in life when they were practical to get

These are the kinds of things I want to see tackled with real-world career advice since I think they apply to a lot of people. For every lucky executive or entrepreneur there are many who were unlucky.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#68
post #40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unacknowledged fact. Due to Stack Ranking and modern day Machivellian work culture, colleagues are competitors. Most relationships end up the same way. If there is some kind of comparative ranking/selection, even if it is just fame or some recognition. Even sibling rivalry roots in this.

I've had such a different experience than you. I feel that being friends with co-workers has always been more about mutual aid than competition.

Probably depends on the job.

We devs always got along well, even the idiots were kind of included.

But I had the impression, things were different sales or the management team.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#69

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that ma…

I second this.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to share any subset o values. Otherwise there's no space for dialogue. I believe this is the norm.

Are people using values to mean interests? I need to share some interests: sports, beer, model building, architecture etc... Values though? I can't see that being the norm unless your shared interest is politics, religion, or social order/dynamics.

Not really. It's hard to get along with people if I know that they're opposite me on some very important political axis, or they think I'm going to their version of Hell.

I know I'm more sensitive about this than most people. I'm also generally not good at making friends. But it's a fact.

Post reply on HN