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Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

venturebeat.com

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Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#61

Post by TheSmiddy »

Fricken wrote: post #26
matdehaast wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. Can you clarify what predictions in multi agent scenarios are?

Imagine an uncontrolled intersection. The Robotaxi is approaching from one direction. In the opposite direction is a cyclist who intends to turn left across the Robotaxi. There is also a pedestrian that may or may not cross the street, and another vehicle about to cross in front of the Robotaxi from the other direction. There are a huge number of ways this scenario can play out, and any decision made by one agent can…

In Australia there are no uncontrolled intersections (that I am aware of). Every single junction clearly marks who must give way and we don't have any 4-way stops, instead using roundabouts in these situations.

It's possible that for self driving to work road systems will have to be more formalised to remove the ambiguous situations you've described. I can't imagine it working well in China or Indonesia where traffic flows much more like water in a stream and lanes are merely just suggestions.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#62

Post by BubRoss »

chx wrote: post #51
vardump wrote: post #33

Yawn. Good lane markings, no rain/snow or other bad weather, perfect road surfaces. Just like all other self-driving demos. I'd like to see a demo like this on snow covered roads, with no lane markings visible. I think that would tell a lot more about the system's ability to deal with an imperfect world.

As far as I know "navigating a busy parking lot while raining" is a problem the autonomous car industry does not even have an idea how to solve.

In a parking lot the car would be starting from a position it can stay in, so requiring a person to intervene is one option. Also busy parking lots frequently don't stay busy forever and heavy rain doesn't last forever either.

A look at the local weather could see where a storm is and give an estimate of when it will be able to automate leaving and require a person otherwise. I think there are pragmatic answers to extreme situations.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#63

Post by travisporter »

Fricken wrote: post #42
xiaolingxiao wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multi-agent refers to behavior of pedestrians/cyclists, and other cars on the road. This is especially tough in "ambigous" junctions such as roundabouts, and unprotected left turns. There the strategy to negotiate the junctor is highly context dependent, and the information needed to find a strategy is not in the current scene. Drivers in these moments draw on "cultural awareness" of what "should" be done. Observing…

I have faith in robotaxis abilities to handle safety critical things. The lizard brain stuff is under control. They are still just too stupid to navigate complex traffic efficiently, without regularly hesitating and getting tripped up. Robotaxis are Rube Goldberg machines, there are so many moving parts. The running joke at Waymo for a while was "How many engineers does it take to operate a self driving car?" Everybo…

Can you elaborate on the moving parts? Is it just too expensive to install/maintain the sensors, or do you mean the algorithm has to deal with multiple inputs/decisions?

I could envision a scenario where a city council of a less populated city with lax regulations could deploy robotaxis to their economic advantage. Do you think we'll get there soon?

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#64

Post by gambiting »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
yellowapple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "something better than humans can do" is the whole selling point of self-driving cars. And plenty of us humans can and do drive reasonably-safely in snowy/icy conditions. It takes practice, like anything else driving-related, but it's something that most drivers north of the Mason-Dixon Line likely have quite a bit of practice with and have to handle a significant fraction of the year. It's not unreasonable t…

> Because "something better than humans can do" is the whole selling point of self-driving cars. I don't think so. 'As good as humans can do' would be useful.

Nope, "as good as a human" shouldn't be allowed on the road or on the market. Errors that are allowed for humans should never be allowed for a machine.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#66

Post by travisporter »

candu wrote: post #48
yellowapple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "something better than humans can do" is the whole selling point of self-driving cars. And plenty of us humans can and do drive reasonably-safely in snowy/icy conditions. It takes practice, like anything else driving-related, but it's something that most drivers north of the Mason-Dixon Line likely have quite a bit of practice with and have to handle a significant fraction of the year. It's not unreasonable t…

Exactly. If we're willing to settle for "as good as a human" in autonomous vehicles, then IMHO all this expertise, R&D, time, effort, money, etc. would be better spent on the public transit and/or active mobility solutions of the near-future.

Unfortunately public transit is considered an epithet where I live because it brings crime from the city into my "idyllic crime free" suburb just 10 miles away from city center (no joke). I hate driving and have put my eggs into a self-driving (hopefully super low emissions) taxi service to come online.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#67

Post by ghaff »

BubRoss wrote: post #62
chx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know "navigating a busy parking lot while raining" is a problem the autonomous car industry does not even have an idea how to solve.

In a parking lot the car would be starting from a position it can stay in, so requiring a person to intervene is one option. Also busy parking lots frequently don't stay busy forever and heavy rain doesn't last forever either. A look at the local weather could see where a storm is and give an estimate of when it will be able to automate leaving and require a person otherwise. I think there are pragmatic answers to ex…

As soon as you require human intervention, you require a sober, licensed human to be in the vehicle at all times. You no longer have a robo-taxi. It can also be hard to predict weather in much of the US. And as soon as you place too many restrictions, you no longer have a reliable transportation option.

Imagine your public transit system only ran in good weather. How useful would it be?

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#68

Post by ghaff »

chrisseaton wrote: post #50
draugadrotten wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once driving on a road I could not see at all. It was at night, in a blizzard on the road from Denver to Vail. It didn't take long until I was following the two red lights of the bus in front of me. As a human, I knew I could drive safely where the bus had been driving seconds ago. A self-driving car would have... tell me.

> I was once driving on a road I could not see at all. It was at night, in a blizzard on the road from Denver to Vail. It didn't take long until I was following the two red lights of the bus in front of me. Perhaps you should have pulled over at this point? Maybe that's what an autonomous car would do.

Pulling over in a snowstorm to the side of the highway can be pretty dangerous too. Once you're in that situation there aren't necessarily great alternatives.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#69

Post by chrisseaton »

gambiting wrote: post #64
chrisseaton wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because "something better than humans can do" is the whole selling point of self-driving cars. I don't think so. 'As good as humans can do' would be useful.

Nope, "as good as a human" shouldn't be allowed on the road or on the market. Errors that are allowed for humans should never be allowed for a machine.

> Nope, "as good as a human" shouldn't be allowed on the road or on the market. Errors that are allowed for humans should never be allowed for a machine.

I don't understand why you'd have that opinion. If it's no riskier and relieves people from having to drive then that seems like a net benefit to me.

Re: Watch Zoox’s autonomous car drive around San Francisco for an hour

#70

Post by anchpop »

ghaff wrote: post #67
BubRoss wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a parking lot the car would be starting from a position it can stay in, so requiring a person to intervene is one option. Also busy parking lots frequently don't stay busy forever and heavy rain doesn't last forever either. A look at the local weather could see where a storm is and give an estimate of when it will be able to automate leaving and require a person otherwise. I think there are pragmatic answers to ex…

As soon as you require human intervention, you require a sober, licensed human to be in the vehicle at all times. You no longer have a robo-taxi. It can also be hard to predict weather in much of the US. And as soon as you place too many restrictions, you no longer have a reliable transportation option. Imagine your public transit system only ran in good weather. How useful would it be?

> As soon as you require human intervention, you require a sober, licensed human to be in the vehicle at all times. You no longer have a robo-taxi.

You have a robo-taxi that works when it's not raining, which is still pretty good (assuming it can safely disengage/pull over if it thinks the weather is getting bad).

> Imagine your public transit system only ran in good weather. How useful would it be?

I and many other Americans live in places that don't have any public transit, so a few robocars that only worked during the day would be a huge improvement.

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