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Privacy Not Included

foundation.mozilla.org

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Re: Privacy Not Included

#61

Post by henriquez »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #21
henriquez wrote: post #18

This is a good resource, but the presentation needs work. The big emoji smiley face on top implies that all the products listed below are "good," but you have to actually click through on the product to see the actual rating (like Amazon's Ring Doorbell is rated by users as "Super Creepy"). The explanation of their Minimum Security Standards is pretty helpful and reasonable though: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/p…

The smiley face actually changes as you scroll down. It’s kind of confusing

Another issue - there's no way to see user votes without actually voting, which encourages people to leave the vote in the "neutral" state and click through if they just want to see the results.

In almost every case I saw, perfect Neutral was skewed very highly so this UX is clearly polluting the results.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#62

Post by aschatten »

Maybe a good start, but I don't think it's too useful. Creepiness is not just security, it's both: privacy and security.

A while ago I got Tile, though it was a good idea. Returned the same day, because in order to add a device I needed to create an account. The device is in my hand, the phone is in my hand, Bluetooth is the protocol. I don't need a server to arbiter a pretty straight-forward interactions between them. There is absolutely no need to require account creation, until I request cloud dependent features. Should be functional offline without any data sent to server.

Same with GoPro, they app required you to signup before you can use it.

On the other hand, I can pair and update my Bose headphones without having an account. I can do it without an app by plugging in a cable. I don't need to bother about their cloud security or privacy policy, because they simply don't have PI they can loose or misuse. I only need to be concerned about security of Bluetooth and Updates delivery.

Because it is hard not to use various services and you can't possibly asses security and privacy policies easily, the first question is: What information it collects and does it really need it to function or merely for marketing et al? If it does need, then you need to worry about security and privacy.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#63

Post by blankface »

oehpr wrote: post #25

I wanted to give everyone a heads up here, this is genuinely a terrible site. I like the things mozilla does more generally. But this site... These product listings are USER RATED! And they're sorted based on users ratings. General users will vote for anything positive to indicate they like it , and anything negative to indicate they hate it. "Is this product good value?" "Yes." "Is this a luxury product?" "Yes." "Is…

It's a great start - I see a lot of potential in how it has "dumbed down" the topic of consumer privacy.

I see all the flaws you're talking about, but the one thing I was looking for, and this simple delivered, is to relay the message

"Ring and Nest are bad, like really bad"

Re: Privacy Not Included

#64

Post by Animats »

solidasparagus wrote: post #59
Animats wrote: post #55

Right. Automatic updates would seem to be a negative for privacy. They imply a backdoor to force changes on a device. Automatic update features have often been used to reduce consumer rights. It's not even clear they're a win for security. If you shipped some simple device with so much attack surface it needs security fixes, you're doing it wrong.

Wait what? You think security fixes are a sign that software was built 'wrong'? Every piece of software has security bugs - it's the ones that never have any security fixes that I would be scared of.

You think security fixes are a sign that software was built 'wrong'?

Of course. If it needs a fix, it was built wrong. We've become too accepting of low-security software. There's no excuse for this in embedded devices that don't do much.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#65

Post by m463 »

aschatten wrote: post #62

Maybe a good start, but I don't think it's too useful. Creepiness is not just security, it's both: privacy and security. A while ago I got Tile, though it was a good idea. Returned the same day, because in order to add a device I needed to create an account. The device is in my hand, the phone is in my hand, Bluetooth is the protocol. I don't need a server to arbiter a pretty straight-forward interactions between the…

I thought with Tile they could use your bluetooth to find other people's tiles. So its all cloud-based.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#66

Post by guevara »

oehpr wrote: post #25

I wanted to give everyone a heads up here, this is genuinely a terrible site. I like the things mozilla does more generally. But this site... These product listings are USER RATED! And they're sorted based on users ratings. General users will vote for anything positive to indicate they like it , and anything negative to indicate they hate it. "Is this product good value?" "Yes." "Is this a luxury product?" "Yes." "Is…

There's some potential here. Not every Joe Shmoe knows or even cares about privacy so dumbing it down to "Product A: Good" and "Product B: Bad" is a start at least.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#67

Post by Paianni »

guevara wrote: post #66
oehpr wrote: post #25

I wanted to give everyone a heads up here, this is genuinely a terrible site. I like the things mozilla does more generally. But this site... These product listings are USER RATED! And they're sorted based on users ratings. General users will vote for anything positive to indicate they like it , and anything negative to indicate they hate it. "Is this product good value?" "Yes." "Is this a luxury product?" "Yes." "Is…

There's some potential here. Not every Joe Shmoe knows or even cares about privacy so dumbing it down to "Product A: Good" and "Product B: Bad" is a start at least.

It could backfire, people might perceive the complexity of the content is a reflection of how dumb a company thinks its viewers are.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#69

Post by aschatten »

m463 wrote: post #65
aschatten wrote: post #62

Maybe a good start, but I don't think it's too useful. Creepiness is not just security, it's both: privacy and security. A while ago I got Tile, though it was a good idea. Returned the same day, because in order to add a device I needed to create an account. The device is in my hand, the phone is in my hand, Bluetooth is the protocol. I don't need a server to arbiter a pretty straight-forward interactions between the…

I thought with Tile they could use your bluetooth to find other people's tiles. So its all cloud-based.

This is a secondary function, as far as I remember you would need to explicitly mark you item as lost and it can only connect to app running, not really a mesh network of tiles. In any case, I think I should be able to use it locally, if I want to opt in for network, then signing up makes sense.

Re: Privacy Not Included

#70

Post by m463 »

aschatten wrote: post #69
m463 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought with Tile they could use your bluetooth to find other people's tiles. So its all cloud-based.

This is a secondary function, as far as I remember you would need to explicitly mark you item as lost and it can only connect to app running, not really a mesh network of tiles. In any case, I think I should be able to use it locally, if I want to opt in for network, then signing up makes sense.

Your proposed use-case won't overcome their business model. Their business model (theoretically) makes their company more valuable the more users they get (users that cave).
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