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Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

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Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#61

Post by sampsonitify »

scott_s wrote: post #38
iateanapple wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vox saying face masks aren't the best way to avoid Coronavirus. Actually basically the mainstream view in the US at the time It was the mainstream view in the US because the media built the narrative that masks wouldn’t help...

They were reporting what the CDC told them.

You report things that happen, e.g. crash happened on X road. You can report that "CDC says mask don't work" but if you write it as truth, which Vox stated in January, you are either a parrot or inept.

If journalism is just reporting what others say, and not questioning what they say and the underlying assumptions, then it is at best just a weak form of Wikipedia, and at worst a propaganda mechanism.

Journalists need to get some teeth back and challenge authorities rather than relying on what is said as gospel. Jounalists should have led the charge on all of this, starting with questioning Chinese numbers through to Masks and the assumptions of the modelling, rather than playing, to be kind, catch up and to be mean interference on people doing their job for them.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#62

Post by nopriorarrests »

andrepd wrote: post #58
sampsonitify wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the role of journalists? The defence that "basically the mainstream view in the US at the time" seems to me the antithesis of why we need journalists at all. Far too much journalism is either weakly factual, where ideas like masks are taken prima facie and without much thought, or opinion pieces with an ideological bent. What happened to investigating ideas, to see where they lead? To questioning everyone, no…

It wasn't only the mainstream view in the US, it was the leading medical advice by the World Health Organisation. This isn't a matter of questioning politicians, but of trusting reputed experts and expert authorities on technical matters.

Are you sure that WHO is run by reputed experts and not by career bureaucrats whose motivation is mostly political, not medical? Because after the whole thing unfolded, it seems to be exactly the case.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#63

Post by specialist »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #49
specialist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About those mask recommendations... Edit: Surgical masks vs respirators. Any advice omitting the distinction is suboptimal . Surgical masks are still useless. Best case is they serve as sneeze guards and visual reinforcement. N95 rated respirators are useful. And in short supply. Since healthcare workers desperately need them and most people don't, their use is currently weakly recommended. Face shields plus respirat…

> Surgical masks are still useless. Not according to the research I've been reading: https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1249698787666399235

Great find, thanks.

That review of the paper makes the distinction between protection and transmission. I admit I was only thinking about protection.

Since I'm immunocompromised, I will continue to wear N95 respirators whenever I'm around other people.

But per this paper, surgical masks are useful for "source control", at least partially thwarting infected people from spreading the virus. I'm super skeptical, because of old habits, but science is science.

So the rest of you should start wearing surgical (or cloth) masks. Thanks.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#64

Post by prepend »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #49
specialist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About those mask recommendations... Edit: Surgical masks vs respirators. Any advice omitting the distinction is suboptimal . Surgical masks are still useless. Best case is they serve as sneeze guards and visual reinforcement. N95 rated respirators are useful. And in short supply. Since healthcare workers desperately need them and most people don't, their use is currently weakly recommended. Face shields plus respirat…

> Surgical masks are still useless. Not according to the research I've been reading: https://twitter.com/jeremyphoward/status/1249698787666399235

I think it depends on perspective. There is not evidence that surgical masks useful in preventing someone from contracting covid [0]. Which makes sense because droplets can still be inhaled because air flows around the mask (unlike n95 respirators).

Masks are very useful in preventing spread, thus useful for overall slowing the spread of the disease.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118603/

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#65

Post by prepend »

gxqoz wrote: post #32
zarkov99 wrote: post #31

Good fucking riddance. The Internet will be a better place without them.

Uh, why? In what world does reducing the number of media outlets benefit the internet?

The world where some media outlets reduce the overall quality of information and are a net negative to human growth.

I think it causes more harm than good to try to exploit my censor or remove trash media. But when it fails, that’s a plus, I think.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#66

Post by jariel »

egypturnash wrote: post #51
jariel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Distilling' I think is the wrong word. They describe a person/event/situation from their highly ideological position. It's high-quality writing, but I stopped reading it for this reason. Edit: from 'AllSides' analysis [1] "Vox's Explainers provide only one side of an issue, making it seem as if the information provided is all readers need to know, when in reality, Right-leaning individuals would likely include other…

Do you have a similar problem with right-leaning sources pushing their own ideology?

Yes. What in my concerns with Vox would imply otherwise?

Vox should call itself 'the progressive lens' or something along those lines, it would be more transparent.

And FYI I think the 'left/right' demarcation is far too simplistic for the categorization of the media landscape today particularly as classical ideologies splinter into movements given new trends. The entire world's political landscape has been upended so it'd be nice if we could agree on some new language.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#67

Post by Traster »

sampsonitify wrote: post #61
scott_s wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were reporting what the CDC told them.

You report things that happen, e.g. crash happened on X road. You can report that "CDC says mask don't work" but if you write it as truth, which Vox stated in January, you are either a parrot or inept. If journalism is just reporting what others say, and not questioning what they say and the underlying assumptions, then it is at best just a weak form of Wikipedia, and at worst a propaganda mechanism. Journalists need…

Mathematicians report 1+1=2. Where do you draw the line? At some point you need to draw the line and say "Actually, my article isn't an expose on the CDC." It's not the job of every journalist at every second to be challenging literally everything. At the end of February the US Surgeon General was not just telling people that masks don't help - he said:

> U.S. Surgeon General @Surgeon_General Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!

>They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!

I completely agree that someone should be questioning when the CDC says "Masks don't help", but firstly, you need to be really damn sure if you're going to second guess the CDC on the eve of a pandemic, and secondly, it's not everyone's job to be writing that story. Someone should, but for every earth shattering pullitzer prize winner, there's going to be 1000 articles that just adhered to the status quo and that's not neccessarily a bad thing.

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#68

Post by jariel »

ironmagma wrote: post #47
jariel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Distilling' I think is the wrong word. They describe a person/event/situation from their highly ideological position. It's high-quality writing, but I stopped reading it for this reason. Edit: from 'AllSides' analysis [1] "Vox's Explainers provide only one side of an issue, making it seem as if the information provided is all readers need to know, when in reality, Right-leaning individuals would likely include other…

It’s a shame, too, because they have the great opportunity to be a news organization that actually delivers the source material in a more complete manner. Vox is incredibly disappointing and all their messaging sets you up for a complete letdown.

My thoughts as well. During Coronavirus what we need more than ever are not 'daily headlines' so much as 'status/explainer' news, like a dynamic, contemporary Wikipedia article that nails and dissolves the meta-issues of the day. Trying to find out the specific status of Canada's various bailout programs is almost impossible unless you sit there with the news on all day!

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#69

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

andrepd wrote: post #58
sampsonitify wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the role of journalists? The defence that "basically the mainstream view in the US at the time" seems to me the antithesis of why we need journalists at all. Far too much journalism is either weakly factual, where ideas like masks are taken prima facie and without much thought, or opinion pieces with an ideological bent. What happened to investigating ideas, to see where they lead? To questioning everyone, no…

It wasn't only the mainstream view in the US, it was the leading medical advice by the World Health Organisation. This isn't a matter of questioning politicians, but of trusting reputed experts and expert authorities on technical matters.

I don't think journalists need to distrust authority, necessarily. But good journalism would involve followup questions like:

* Are masks ineffective in the sense that they don't reliably stop the spread of the coronavirus, or in the sense that they don't impact it in any way?

* Taiwan and South Korea believe masks are effective and are handing them out to their citizens. Why do they believe masks are effective, and if it's not true what do we know that they don't?

* Masks intuitively ought to work; I cough out the virus, but sometimes it'll get caught in the mask instead of going into someone's nose and mouth. What part of this story is flawed?

Re: Vox Media is cutting pay and furloughing 9% of employees

#70

Post by samename »

ajross wrote: post #56
simonsarris wrote: post #10

I don't have any opinions here but for added context and interest, the two unions involved released statements: NY Mag Union statement on the cuts: https://twitter.com/NYMagUnion/status/1251218401688772608 Vox media union on the cuts: https://twitter.com/vox_union/status/1251174537120616454 > While we appreciate Vox Media talking to us in good faith, we don’t agree with the company’s decision to furlough employees —…

I made this point earlier, but contrast the difference in tone between Vox workers and Amazon workers in what is really a very similar dispute. Cultivating a healthy working relationship with your unions means that when the world blows up, making hard choices doesn't get covered as an existential disaster.

Also notice how Vox workers have a union, while Amazon workers don’t.
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