We need to talk about AirPods Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#61

Post by andreareina » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #33

andreareina wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ANC works on the level of physics, not just perception -- it attenuates the actual sound waves.

Where does that energy go although? The waves go to 0-ish, but that air pressure / energy has to go somewhere correct?

The energy goes into constructive interference in other parts of the wave (hopefully not traveling into your ear). Avery's beamlab[1] provides a nice playground with visual representation (use the anti-optimize mode). It's built around radio signals but the concept is very much the same.

[1] https://apenwarr.ca/beamlab/

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#62

Post by jdsully » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

davidgould wrote: post #58

jdsully wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but perfect destructive interference isn’t possible unless everything remains fixed in place which is difficult on a living human head. Its quite possible to get temporary constructive interference for short periods, and also plausible the brain would filter the spurious noise out.

Not quite following this argument. The distance between the microphone and speaker is fixed (and small compared to the wavelengths of interest) because they are part of the AirPod.

The distance between the speaker and ear drum.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#63

Post by someonehere » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #37

someonehere wrote: post #27

Maybe litigation about the earbuds being too quiet might happen if someone doesn’t hear something behind them like a car horn or oncoming something. I used to wear noise cancelling headphones while walking to work in downtown SF. It was too much cancellation that bothered me because I couldn’t hear anything approaching me from behind. I can easily see the opposite happen if someone was killed with the OG firmware. “A…

Wouldn't that also apply to earplugs?

I don’t know. I’m not Apple’s lawyers.

I would assume wearing earplugs you have the intent of reducing the sound coming in. AirPods you are blocking external sound and replacing it with audio of some sort.

With earplugs you could still hear things but at a reduced level. AirPods you’re covering up and external sound that could come through.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#64

Post by novok » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

JustResign wrote: post #56

novok wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a hear through option that works with wind noise, unlike a lot of other ones?

Ah, I did not know that! I assume, though, that that mode doesn't implement ANC. Given that, I'm not sure it explains your symptoms.

No it still uses ANC, it uses the microphones to pipe in the audio from outside.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#65

Post by novok » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

berberous wrote: post #45

novok wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my theory! I bought the airpods pro before nov, and around nov 2019 I developed tinnitus that I couldn't pinpoint the cause of, even after going to an ENT & Audiologists. After going to the Audiologist. I also found out tinitus is a big mystery in the medical field outside of a small band of causes that I didn't have. The only difference in my day to day was the Airpods Pro and biking to work with them.

how old are you?

Early 30s, and I've been one to avoid loud sounds / concerts for most of my life. The spontaneous development of it is what really got me. I first got it on a quiet car ride.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#66

Post by solarkraft » Sat, Apr 11, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

trashfindhunter wrote: post #52

solarkraft wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean by that that it couldn't be louder than what the speaker could produce: No, because you're adding to the original noise entering your ear from the outside.

Will the physical sound waves that I produce with my loud speakers cause Active Noise Control enabled headphones to "engage" with me? Could I adversarially engage with them at that point?

I think I understand what you mean now.

While the noise cancellation is active it will attempt to neutralize (destructively interfere with) sounds from the outside, including those generated by your speaker. You could indeed adversarially engage through something like a spontaneous phase shift (so the interference will become constructive, making the resulting signal louder) or generating a frequency the ANC can't compensate.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#67

Post by traspler » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 8:58 AM UTC

jpalomaki wrote: post #55

There has been also some comments about people feeling "pressure" with the noise cancelling headphones. Couple of old articles mentioning this [1] and [2]. It's not about pressure as having something tucked into your ears, but related to the noise cancelling: "You may notice a pressure-like feeling in your ears when you first put noise-cancelling headphones on, like when you want to 'pop' your ears. This is caused by…

I have this problem with noise canceling headphones.

When I first tried the Bose headphones, I immediately felt an uncomfortable pressure on my ear drums. I can only wear them in airplanes and have to take breaks. I tried other headphones and none are perfect for me but I did buy the Sennheiser ones. It has okay noise canceling with only minimal pressure for me and with stellar audio performance. The noise canceling is noticeably worse than the Bose's but at least I can wear them longer. I also tried the AirPod Pros when they came out and felt very little pressure so from that angle I would have been comfortable with wearing them for an extended period. (I can't say for sure but it might not have been the launch firmware) As with all Apple headphones they just don't stay in my ears so sadly I passed them up.

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#68

Post by traspler » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

I never noticed the "whoosh" silence with the AirPod Pros when I tried them BUT I noticed something like that on my iPhone XR. Sometimes when I am on a call and hold/press the phone to my ear in a certain way I have the sensation of losing most of my hearing in that ear with only the voice remaining. The sensation never lasts longer than a couple of seconds but it's only on phone calls that I ever noticed this. I never had that with any other smartphone, even ones claiming to have noise canceling during calls. Reading this article makes me belobe that the iPhone still has the original AirPod ANC which is just less effective due to the bad seal.

Did anyone else notice this?

Re: We need to talk about AirPods Pro

#69

Post by davidgould » Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

jdsully wrote: post #62

davidgould wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite following this argument. The distance between the microphone and speaker is fixed (and small compared to the wavelengths of interest) because they are part of the AirPod.

The distance between the speaker and ear drum.

Assuming the the canceling wave is timed to cancel at the speaker this should not matter as the external wave and the canceling wave would have the same distance to the ear drum.