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Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

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Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#61
post #10

I've been a data person for the past year and a half and I'm very disappointed with the bewildering array of titles out there and the rather vague meanings behind them (Data Analyst, Data Scientist, Data Engineer, ML Engineer). It's overall hurting my ability to build my personal brand and seek roles that are a fit for my existing skillset and aspirations. What exactly does 'ML Engineer' communicate to employers in t…

I've been working in data roles for 10 years and hold a masters in ML. I've hired and managed each of the roles you mentioned. I think of the responsibilities of each of those roles as: -ML Engineers as building software infrastructure to scale machine learning inference and training. -Data engineers focusing on data infrastructure and pipelining into either model inference, training, or other business intelligence p…

Thanks for the breakdown!

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#62

> Moreover, you may quickly realize much of this work is repetitive and while time-consuming, is “easy”. In fact, most analyses involve a great deal of time to understand the data, clean it and organize it. You may spend a minimal amount of time doing the “fun” parts that data scientists think of: complex statistics, machine learning and experimentation with tangible results. This. Universities and online challenges…

This rings true to me. I've seen a lot of models get built that are never used. Although in my experience it wasn't that data scientists didn't care about business value, it's just that data science often requires breaking down silos and asking other teams to change their behavior.

This article mentions that leadership often doesn't support data science, but I think it actually doesn't go far enough. Leadership doesn't just have to support the data scientists, it has to actually tell other teams to prioritize data science projects over what they are currently doing. Since these data science projects are riskier than standard projects, it makes sense that leadership doesn't often do this (and focusing on the standard projects could be the right call). However, it also means that it's very hard for data scientists to create business value.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#63
I guess I'm in the minority in these threads..? I've been doing machine learning / model-building / pushing models to prod and maintaining for about 6 years now. It's still 50/50 understanding the data and building/tweaking/training/testing models. But it sounds like most people with this title are analysts? At least that's what posts and threads lead me to believe. I've also met a lot of people with titles like "ML Engineer" or "Data Scientist" who don't do machine learning. They are analysts, engineers, or maintaining data pipelines.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#64

> Moreover, you may quickly realize much of this work is repetitive and while time-consuming, is “easy”. In fact, most analyses involve a great deal of time to understand the data, clean it and organize it. You may spend a minimal amount of time doing the “fun” parts that data scientists think of: complex statistics, machine learning and experimentation with tangible results. This. Universities and online challenges…

>You may spend a minimal amount of time doing the “fun” parts that data scientists think of: complex statistics, machine learning and experimentation with tangible results.

I don't get why building a model people consider to be the "fun" part. That's mostly spitting data in, watching a loading screen, and then observing the output.

That's not fun, that's boring. The fun part is looking at the data and gleaming all these potential patterns from it, seeing what potential is there and what could be. Likewise, learning the business side and seeing what is possible no one has considered is great fun too.

My favorite part is feature engineering. Pre-processing and cleaning is fun too, but morphing the data into formats that extract a diamond from coal is a lot of fun, and what data science is all about. Clicking go on some ML algo is just icing on the cake, seeing it reveal bits maybe even I overlooked in the data.

If you like ML why not be an MLE? That's what MLEs do, and they're a more desirable job. DS is all about the research, discovering and learning new information, and making the impossible possible.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#65

I stood up a data science operation at my company over the last few years, and have noticed a key difference in data-science projects that have been successful and those that have failed. It hits on a number of points brought up in the article, namely where does data science "fit" in an organization delivering software and how is the value realized by the business. The worst cases I have seen is when executives take…

>The worst cases I have seen is when executives take a problem and ask data scientists to "do some of that data science" on the problem...high-level pie in the sky stuff that works well in pitch meetings and client meetings...

I'm been in various external and internal facing Data Science roles for 8+ years and this is spot on. IME it's the #1 reason Data Science projects "fail." If you can replace "do some of that data science" with "do some of that black magic" that probably means nobody actually checked to make sure the data and problem made sense in the first place. But somebody somewhere already committed to it, so the Data Science team has to deliver it.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#66
post #40
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the non-specificity of the term Data Science was a strange criticism for those in the tech industry to make. How many types of SWE are there? Front-end, back-end, full-stack, devops, security, QA... I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendation. Like any other job, each company has different needs and expectations and if you want something else out of the role you'd best avoid that company.

Frankly I have the same criticism of those who use the term software engineer. Engineering is a pretty established profession with a set of standards, ethics and practices. Most of us who work in software are not engineers. We are developers. Similarly, a scientist is one who follows the scientific method to do research. So by that logic a data scientist should be a person who uses the scientific method to do researc…

>So by that logic a data scientist should be a person who uses the scientific method to do research on data. Does that make any sense? And let's be serious, is that what most data scientists are being hired to do?

I certainly do, but I've been doing data science for the better half of a decade. It seems starting around 2015 when Data Science became a sexy title, a lot of fresh blood has been overgrown software engineers wanting the title, not knowing what they're getting into, or having faulty expectations. I don't consider this class of "data scientist" a data scientist, which is why the community has started shifting its job title away from Data Science to Research Scientist to better differentiate.

The good side of this is I'll come into a company with them expecting me to be like an over blown software engineer, and it gives me the opportunity to show off and go above and beyond what companies expect, allowing me to come off like a super hero. Though, it's definitely an uphill battle, and knowing how to work with upper management is an absolute necessity.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#67
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a data visualisation class in uni that handled this really cleverly. The second assignment sounded very easy. The teacher provided links to the sources where we could find data. Most people figured that with such a simple assignment (not significantly harder than the first one, which was also easy-ish) they could put off doing it until the last moment. Most people failed. This real world data needed hours upon…

I’m currently preparing a data visualization course to be taught this fall, and I would love to hear more about this! If you’d be willing to share some of those resources or the contact information for your professor, I’d really appreciate it. You can find contact info at the link in my profile :)

Not parent poster, but Thomas Powell is the Data Viz instructor at UCSD.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#68
A really easy way that I try to explain things to people is like this:

You can't compress information until you have it in a format that is appropriate for compression.

That is:

You can't compress (apply/create algorithms) information (data) until you have it (instrumented data collection) in a format (schema) that is appropriate for efficient compression (structured logging/cleaning).

99% of that is Data Engineering and building good engineering practices which have good data practices as a priority.

For any organization that has more than a handful of employees and more than one product, that is a non trivial task and gets more difficult the larger the organization gets.

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#69
post #3

This rings very true to me. I'm working on moving over to an SWE role in the next few years for many of these reasons. I'll just add one: the business absolutely doesn't care how you get your answer, only if they're reliable enough (hand grenade close is better than most companies have today). While this seems obvious enough to anyone with a few years under their belt, to the new DS grad who has their time series ana…

> the business absolutely doesn't care how you get your answer, only if they're reliable enough (hand grenade close is better than most companies have today).

One of the challenges with this is that "reliable" can mean a lot of things when the goalposts of success are constantly moving in large projects with many stakeholders, all of which are clawing for attention. I've seen politics derail so many Data Science projects and destroy the morale of Data Scientists.

It's only natural that a lot of people will realize that a moving average that confirms what people wanted to see anyway will lead to more success (whatever that means).

Re: Data Science: Reality Doesn't Meet Expectations

#70
post #3

This rings very true to me. I'm working on moving over to an SWE role in the next few years for many of these reasons. I'll just add one: the business absolutely doesn't care how you get your answer, only if they're reliable enough (hand grenade close is better than most companies have today). While this seems obvious enough to anyone with a few years under their belt, to the new DS grad who has their time series ana…

Usually, but I've seen the opposite too.

Sometimes a young startup wants to advertise to the board, and they want you to make a presentation. I've made the mistake of showing near 100% accuracy solving a difficult problem important to the business, and expecting a strong positive result.

Instead I got a, "But, are we using deep neural networks?" type comments.

Sometimes a company just wants to market, be it to customers, or to the board. It's important to know your audience.

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