Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 110 posts

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#61

Post by mcherm »

Reedx wrote: post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

> How do we put a swift end to this nonsense?

I support emergency whistleblower legislation prohibiting any health care employer (perhaps any employer) from engaging and discrimination or adverse job actions on the basis of an employee's good-faith effort to make a non-negligent report in the public interest of a matter that has previously been reported through internal channels that the employee was aware of and were not overly burdensome.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#62

Post by baron_harkonnen »

Reedx wrote: post #12

There's also this: "Many hospitals bar doctors and other staff members from wearing protective masks in public areas. Some have been disciplined for pushing back." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/health/hospitals-coronavi... How do we put a swift end to this nonsense? Surely the public will be overwhelmingly on the side of doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers.

> Surely the public will be on the side of ...

What would lead you to believe that "will of the public" commands any agency at all? In a functioning democracy this would be a powerful force but we've had our democracy subverted by decades of corporate interests controlling more of our government at all levels.

The United States is a democracy in name only, it's a useful myth that keeps the public feeling safe but that illusion increasingly seems less useful.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#63

Post by joshstrange »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #45
op03 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the rationale for not being allowed to bring stuff from home?

Don't really know but my guess is that it is a combination of: 1. Regulations against using non-approved medical equipment of unknown provenance. 2. A worry about health care workers who don't have stuff they can bring from home. It's not as if you can go about and buy an N95 mask right now. If some of the healthcare workers have respirators that they have lying around at home and some don't then it could cause frict…

This comment is not directed towards you as much as the hospitals

1. All regulations are pretty far out the window at this point, nurses are already reusing single-use items all over the place.

2. Oh so since we can't protect everyone we can't protect anyone?

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#64

Post by covid_stassi »

lonelappde wrote: post #36
covid_stassi wrote: post #16

Anonymous new profile, my apologies. My partner wasn't comfortable with me saying this stuff in a public way. They work in the emergency department of a hospital in North America. It's not just that they'll be fired if they speak out... The hospitals are also threatening to withhold worker's compensation payouts if a staff member is caught using anything brought from home, even if it's real, name brand equipment. Got…

> They also risk long term litigation by admitting they can't protect staff. Actually failing to protect staff seems a worse litigation risk.

You would think so, but with enough lawyers, I think the hospital could claim it just didn't know what the risks were (does anyone, really) and made a good faith effort to protect the staff. Honestly I feel for the administrators too. I'm sure they don't relish choosing between a bunch of terrible options. The real beef I have is with the federal government. This attitude towards the states of 'you should be trying to get this stuff yourselves' is ridiculous. In the face of scarce resources there is only prioritization of the resources and working to increase overall capacity. Letting the states get in bidding wars ensures masks go to the richest states, not the states where the need is greatest.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#65

Post by deskamess »

save_ferris wrote: post #46
lonelappde wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors are the strongest guild in USA. They have the legal power to enforce a chronic shortage of doctors. That's why why PAs were invented.

You're proving my point. If one of the most powerful labor groups in the economy is being subjected to ruthless firing for speaking out on critical health issues during a national crisis, then what does that say about the state of labor in the US in general?

Are they (Doctors) misunderstanding the environment? Surely in this particular case, firing the Doctor looks bad on the hospital. Leverage/PR is with the Doctor. Perhaps I am reading it wrong.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#66

Post by joshstrange »

throwawaylalala wrote: post #37

Isn't this a violation of OSHA safe workplace conditions? It's a known, lethal, virus, and they're not letting people protect themselves, especially if they aren't providing that protection themselves. They must "Provide a workplace free of health and safety hazards that can cause death or serious injury;" https://employment.findlaw.com/workplace-safety/protecting-y... Perhaps they'd rather get a call from OSHA? Woul…

> Isn't this a violation of OSHA safe workplace conditions?

The practices nurses/doctors are doing today are in violation of OSHA (mask/shield re-use and the like) and they would have been fired or strongly reprimanded just a few months ago for doing what they are being told to do now. To add insult to injury they aren't letting them protect themselves because it would further prove how unprepared these hospitals were.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#67

Post by joshstrange »

amarshall wrote: post #30
throwawaylalala wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can call in sick.

Calling in sick in medicine typically gets one of your peers called in instead, putting them at-risk instead of you for that shift.

And this is the shitty part, nurses have to choose between their own safety and that of their coworkers/patients. I am extremely worried for some close friends of mine who are nurses and have either preexisting conditions or are older. Those administrators can either get on the floor with the same lack of PPE or STFU in my opinion, it's downright criminal what they are saying and I hope when this is over they will be held to account.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#69

Post by kingbirdy »

frandroid wrote: post #8

This is a self-solving problem for the doctors speaking out. If the hospital would rather fire them than ensure their safety, then getting fired can save these doctors' lives.

Anecdotal, but all the healthcare workers I know (both nurses and doctors) entered their professions because they have a genuine desire to help people and save lives, so I don't think they'd be willing to endanger their jobs right now when they know their continued employment could be a matter of life or death for their patients.

Re: Hospitals Tell Doctors They’ll Be Fired If They Speak Out About Lack of Gear

#70

Post by noad »

Loughla wrote: post #19
noad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already shut down our entire civilization so that the healthcare status quo could be maintained and bills can keep getting sent to the correct address. How on earth is that pragmatic? We could open up massive free clinics in every city tomorrow morning. Nothing is stopping us.

>We already shut down our entire civilization so that the healthcare status quo could be maintained and bills can keep getting sent to the correct address. What a garbage interpretation of what is going on. Jesus Christ, I'm jaded and cynical, but that's just too much. Saying that we don't want to overwhelm our medical capacity because of the billing, versus the actual reason of human deaths. Too much. That's just to…

Guess who is still considered vital and fighting over every procedure and claim? Medical billers, insurance companies, health companies, the many, many financial and legal people every hospital is employing.

Every cog in that machine is still spinning along, wasting massive amounts of time and resources. ER docs are still on the phone fighting insurance companies, while treating covid patients, right now, today. This is reality.

If you complain about any of this you will be fired by the hospital you work for.

Post reply on HN