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Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

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Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#61

Post by thatcat »

antientropic wrote: post #33
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

On the contrary: there is probably no sport where the sim is so close to the real thing. Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. But if you put a decent sim racer in a real race car, they are often able to put together a decent lap pretty quickly. See for instance some of Jimmy Broadbent's recent adventures in real-life racing. Conversely, real-life drivers tend to be good at simracing (e…

Sport sims help with mental strategy and positioning aspects. Being good at something isn't one dimensional.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#62

Post by asjw »

abledon wrote: post #21
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

Well... this guy would like a word with you: https://interestingengineering.com/a-gamer-just-beat-a-profe...

Luck exists

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#63

Post by braythwayt »

bborud wrote: post #37
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

What separates some of the new generation racers from the old is that the new generation F1 racers are better at translating between sim and on-track. This was very clear with the Vettel/Hamilton generation, but even more so now. It isn’t so much a question of realism, but usefulness as preparation and working out a plan and a rythm.

This goes back a long way. Obviously, Chess is a kind of wargame, but the Germans invented Kriegspiel specifically to simulate war well enough to train officers in strategy.

Of course, playing Kriegspiel is nothing like actually standing on the battlefield in the era of Bismark, but nevertheless, the generation of officers who were trained in the simulation were better prepared for their first battle than those who weren’t.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#64

Post by bonestamp2 »

antientropic wrote: post #33
W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

On the contrary: there is probably no sport where the sim is so close to the real thing. Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. But if you put a decent sim racer in a real race car, they are often able to put together a decent lap pretty quickly. See for instance some of Jimmy Broadbent's recent adventures in real-life racing. Conversely, real-life drivers tend to be good at simracing (e…

> Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football.

Not that I would consider FIFA a sim, but I have to assume that, like racing, at least some knowledge of the strategy carries over.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#65

Post by JshWright »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #51
JshWright wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional drivers that also spend a lot of time sim racing, that is... The same is true in this series. Drivers like Max Verstappen and Lando Norris (among the best drivers in the world) so very well, but they also spend a lot of their free time playing these games. Other world class drivers (Hamilton, Vettel, etc), likely wouldn't do anywhere near as well. Obviously there is some overlap in the skills required, b…

Hamilton’s done a few exhibition sim races, and generally does very well in them. The skills translate much better from track to sim than they do the other way around. If you watch the break and throttle pressure on these streams, it’s obvious that the professional racers are much better. They do things like trail breaking, and managing engine power a lot more competently and consistently than the sim enthusiasts. I’…

Yeah, 100% agree that real experience translates to gaming experience better than gaming experience would translate to a real car.

The sims that the teams run (especially the top teams) are significantly more advanced than a CodeMasters game and fancy steering wheel...

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#66

Post by cortesoft »

W-Stool wrote: post #12

As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and th…

A virtual race driver beat two real drivers in a real race:

https://f1esports.com/news/esports-star-enzo-bonito-defeats-...

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#68

Post by DonHopkins »

jacobush wrote: post #55
DonHopkins wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has run around spastically and sweated a lot and forgotten to breath and lost my balance then fallen over flat on my face because I got a boner, I found Severe Running extremely realistic and pretty much exactly like the real thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrUWFo2D1Xs

Wow, that was pretty much Fortnite. Silly swag and dances and chats. Very prescient game, that Severy Running, a decade in advance.

The first "Running Simulator" I remember playing was "Microsoft Olympic Decathlon" on my Apple ][, where you run with your two fingers repeatedly pressing two keys on the keyboard as fast as you can. But I remember seeing more elaborate, challenging Flash "running simulator" games with physics simulation like "Severe Running". Muscular twitch micro-management sims.

[Apple II] Olympic Decathlon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slm2oHqD1ik

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Decathlon

[begin marketing bullshit]

>Reception: Decathlon received the Creative Computing Game of the Year Award at the 1980 West Coast Computer Faire.[4] BYTE in 1981 called Decathlon "a great party game"[5] and "a remarkable simulation ... challenging and entertaining", praising the adherence to the real decathlon's rules and the TRS-80 and Apple II versions' graphics.[4] Computer Gaming World stated in 1982 that Decathlon "has all the characteristics that are required of a long-lasting, quality game". It described the game as having "superb graphics and sound", and concluded that "it is an important contribution to the computer gaming hobby".

>Former decathlete Douglas Cobb wrote in PC Magazine in 1983 that "this impressive, realistic game brings back vivid memories and provides exciting entertainment through all ten events. The jumping and throwing events are particularly authentic, applying theories used in actual competition. Strategies combining speed, timing, and direction are authentic enough to help an Olympic hopeful train on the basic principles behind the individual events". In 1984 InfoWorld stated that "no one's topped it yet. If I were Microsoft, I'd market the heck out of [Decathlon] this summer."

[end marketing bullshit]

>Legacy: Olympic Decathlon preceded Konami's Track & Field and The Activision Decathlon, both of which were released in 1983 and have similar gameplay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromanagement_(gameplay)

>Twitch vs trick: Some forms of micromanagement involve continuous input of a large number of commands over a short period of time. This is known as twitch micromanagement. For example, a micromanagement technique known as kiting requires continuous input from the player in order to keep their character at an optimum distance from a target. Another example of twitch micromanagement can be found in racing games whereby a player is required to keep making split second adjustments to the position of their vehicle.

>In contrast to twitch micromanagement, some game elements need only occasional input from the player in order to exploit tricks in their behavior. In these situations, quick thinking is rewarded over continuous, quick reaction. This is known as trick micromanagement.

>Other types of games are based entirely on micromanagement, such as pet-raising simulations and games like Cake Mania, where the player's ability to micromanage is often the only skill being tested by the game.

Game Helpin' Squad does spot-on parodies of actual games (and entire genres)! The chat messages and menu trees and popup texts that fly by are hilarious and worth pausing and reading!

"Time Travel Understander" is a parody of Braid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fABGyVzVwI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game)

"World Quester 2" is a parody of all D&D/RTS/RPG games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gy9hJauXns

"Pretend Gas Station" is a parody of SimCity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPMeWas4kXM

"Solitaire Party" is a parody of all card games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBbMb3X2R8A

"Burgers and Guns" is a parody of GTA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2VaHd29DEc

"Chronochores" is a parody of I have no idea what, some kind of housecleaning simulator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vu5MrYzVbY

They also did "A Pissed Off Tutorial For Google Wave":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z4RKRLaSug

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#69

Post by pvg »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #64
antientropic wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary: there is probably no sport where the sim is so close to the real thing. Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. But if you put a decent sim racer in a real race car, they are often able to put together a decent lap pretty quickly. See for instance some of Jimmy Broadbent's recent adventures in real-life racing. Conversely, real-life drivers tend to be good at simracing (e…

> Being good at FIFA 19 in no way will make you good at real football. Not that I would consider FIFA a sim, but I have to assume that, like racing, at least some knowledge of the strategy carries over.

Beside it not being a real sim, the viewpoint is completely different and the football most people play for fun is not played by the rules of the pro game.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#70

Post by netsharc »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #51
JshWright wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional drivers that also spend a lot of time sim racing, that is... The same is true in this series. Drivers like Max Verstappen and Lando Norris (among the best drivers in the world) so very well, but they also spend a lot of their free time playing these games. Other world class drivers (Hamilton, Vettel, etc), likely wouldn't do anywhere near as well. Obviously there is some overlap in the skills required, b…

Hamilton’s done a few exhibition sim races, and generally does very well in them. The skills translate much better from track to sim than they do the other way around. If you watch the break and throttle pressure on these streams, it’s obvious that the professional racers are much better. They do things like trail breaking, and managing engine power a lot more competently and consistently than the sim enthusiasts. I’…

I follow Kimi on Instagram and he's posted a story where he's at home sitting in a simulator, with his son on his lap. (Kimi was doing throttle and brake, and gear changes, while his son was turning the wheel.) So he does own one for playing.
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