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Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

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Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#61

Post by lmeyerov »

treparist wrote: post #53

Im really very tired of people who want to help me to save my life. I am not asking anybody to visit some places, but they don't want me to visit them too. And thats its basically a global hysteria, global stupidity and what happens when office have so much power to declare a lockdown. So so so stupid.

It isn't about you, especially if you're healthy and below 50. I do care about the people you'll help infect, including my wife who works in a hospital, the elderly in my home, my colleagues, my elderly parents, and plenty of other people I care about. I and others should absolutely go to bat for the health of their loved ones and dependents.

It's disappointing technologists interested in building things doesn't get the community aspect of that, but not my fight.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#63

Post by ghastmaster »

10-1-100 wrote: post #41
ghastmaster wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally just information. I'm comparing current data, which is clearly indicated and sourced.

I think the problem is that the information (and specifically your third source) is misleading. Note in your first source that the CDC estimates _36 to 51 million _ flu illnesses this season _in the US_. I'm not sure why your third source says "5 million cases". The flu doesn't originate from a single point geographically every year, as it is already embedded in communities globally. So, even if the current numbers w…

According to previous CDC link, worldwide known cases and known death numbers give a known mortality rate of 0.041586323. Obviously there are far more cases that are unknown at this point. This would lower the mortality rate.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200303/Analysis-One-sure...

>Lipkin noted that because cases observed early in an epidemic are the most severe, early mortality estimates tend to be high. As more information comes out, the death rates are likely to fall. "We're probably six months out from having a good picture, and when we do I'd guess the mortality will drop dramatically," he said.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#64

Post by yongjik »

_ea1k wrote: post #9

To be fair to Tesla, they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open. To be fair to the county, finding that perfect balance of what is essential and what is not is impossible. I can't blame them for coming down on this side of things.

> they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open.

That's not really relevant, because these essential services are open because they are, well, "essential", not because they are safer. A hospital is the most dangerous place to catch the virus now, but nobody suggests shutting down the hospital, because we need it right now. We don't need a new car now.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#65

Post by _ea1k »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #31
_ea1k wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely true. I'm sure this calms a lot of anxiety on their part. And if there had been an outbreak, this could end up being life-saving.

Tesla's Fremont factory employs 10k people. I imagine they work closely together, touch a lot of the same stuff, would be at high risk of transmitting this, but I really have no idea. This would almost certainly lead to 1-10+ deaths -- his workers directly or people infected by them. It would lead to hundreds of not thousands of cases of pneumonia and permanent lung damage. It could easily cost millions of dollars to…

If you've seen videos of the plant, there actually aren't that many in close contact. AFAIK, Ford has had a case with covid19 and has not had a major outbreak as a result. It could be bad, but your estimates are severely on the high end.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#66

Post by _ea1k »

yongjik wrote: post #64
_ea1k wrote: post #9

To be fair to Tesla, they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open. To be fair to the county, finding that perfect balance of what is essential and what is not is impossible. I can't blame them for coming down on this side of things.

> they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open. That's not really relevant, because these essential services are open because they are, well, "essential", not because they are safer. A hospital is the most dangerous place to catch the virus now, but nobody suggests shutting down the hospital, because we need it right now. We don't need a new car n…

Well, we don't need an egg mcmuffin now either, but I'm pretty sure those are still allowed. My point is that the boundary of "essential" is surprisingly amorphous.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#67

Post by Cogito »

ghastmaster wrote: post #37
Cogito wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flu is community spread, and not possible to contain. There are many strains, and immunity to the previous season's flu does not provide immunity to this one. The new virus can be contained, at least could have been though perhaps it's too late for that. The only thing keeping the deaths so low to this point has been the containment efforts. The flu does not overrun an entire country's hospital system like COVID-…

>It is misinformation to blindly compare total deaths between two diseases like you are. mis•in•for•ma•tion ► n. Wrong information; false account or intelligence. n. Untrue or incorrect information. n. Information that is incorrect. I disagree.

Misinformation includes misleading information.

Even if a statement is technically correct it can be designed to (or can accidentally) mislead people into coming to the wrong conclusion.

From the start you were advocating the conclusion that this "will do just the same as any other flu" and then compared total deaths to date in support of that conclusion.

The conclusion is misinformed because the comparison is not valid.

For it to be a valid comparison, as others have stated in the thread, we need to compare the projected cases and deaths NOT the current deaths as you have done.

Stating the numbers the way you have, uncritically and without the relevant context, is misinformation because it is misleading.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#68

Post by treparist »

austhrow743 wrote: post #58
treparist wrote: post #53

Im really very tired of people who want to help me to save my life. I am not asking anybody to visit some places, but they don't want me to visit them too. And thats its basically a global hysteria, global stupidity and what happens when office have so much power to declare a lockdown. So so so stupid.

There's no way to guarantee that you wont go to a hospital after getting sick. There's no guarantee you wont go to places afterwards that others have no choice to go to. It's not about saving you from yourself it's about saving others from you.

Maybe we should stop treating people like a child? Maybe we don't need to "save" "others" and they can take care of themselves? Maybe we can stop to rely on "something" and start to be more rational? And yee, it will be much better for the economy and much better for ourselves.

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#69

Post by _ea1k »

a3n wrote: post #51
_ea1k wrote: post #9

To be fair to Tesla, they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open. To be fair to the county, finding that perfect balance of what is essential and what is not is impossible. I can't blame them for coming down on this side of things.

> To be fair to Tesla Why do we need to be fair to a blatant rule breaker in a health crisis?

Because we should be fair to everyone, at least to the extent practical. Isn't that obvious?

Re: Tesla is not essential business as defined in the Alameda County Health Order

#70

Post by Someone1234 »

_ea1k wrote: post #66
yongjik wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are much less likely to spread the virus than some of the "essential" services that are allowed to remain open. That's not really relevant, because these essential services are open because they are, well, "essential", not because they are safer. A hospital is the most dangerous place to catch the virus now, but nobody suggests shutting down the hospital, because we need it right now. We don't need a new car n…

Well, we don't need an egg mcmuffin now either, but I'm pretty sure those are still allowed. My point is that the boundary of "essential" is surprisingly amorphous.

You're contrasting hot food with a new car that has a six week or more lead time and no shortage. There are a lot of traffic still on the road because they too are essential (e.g. delivery vehicles/drivers), they need to eat, hot food fills an essentially need. Nobody "needs" a new Tesla in a crisis.
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