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Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

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Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#61

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #39
dcow wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s if congestion was ever actually a problem to begin with.

That's what I've been wondering ... will they ever try using "we need zero rating to prevent network overload" again if they'll demonstrate now that they don't?

I wish I could say no, but: Yes. In time they could claim - potentially truthfully - that an increasing number of increasingly connected devices engaging in more complex applications by ever more data hungry end users drove additional demand relative to the levels seen in the past, even during past crises.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#62

Post by rolph »

scarejunba wrote: post #52
rolph wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

similar to the virus or with any sort of lotka/voltera dynamics you cant take so much of a targets budget that it cant survive, that means if you subsist off others like animals do [consumers] those others[producers] must have enough "stuff" left to stay afloat or everyone goes down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio... there is a basis for mutual coexistence, it is a maladaptation for anyo…

Yeah but the prey for blackhats numbers in the billions. There is an abundance upon which they can gorge.

up to a point when the prey develops a search image and avoids predation. this is when the predator search image must undergo behavioral extinction, and find a prey that can be harvested with some level of success. When exploitable individuals are no longer contactable the interpredatory competition has to thin out the predators, until more predation naive individuals are born or immigrate to the area etc.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#63

Post by tehlike »

nradov wrote: post #58
runarberg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most other utilities don’t cut you off if you fail to pay.

Which utilities are those? Electric and gas utilities will absolutely cut off customers who are several months in arrears. Although some areas restrict cut-offs during cold weather. Water utilities usually won't cut off service completely but will install a flow restricted that will allow you just enough water to live. Most areas also have some kind of rate assistance or subsidy program for low income utility custome…

Some utilities decided to not terminate utilities due to non-payment during the current pandemic.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#64

Post by Johnny555 »

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #41
wwarner wrote: post #20

I'll play the devil's advocate. Bandwidth is a finite resource, and it could be in critically short supply. In those circumstances, I wouldn't expect everyone to get more bandwidth, I'd expect it to be rationed.

The problem is how do you establish effective rationing with no preparation? It's nigh impossible. Even with preparation, It would be a very difficult and impossibly contentious process.

Do you mean from a technical or business perspective?

Technically Comcast could implement it overnight by reducing everyone's data speed (or maybe throttling particular services), or instituting stricter data caps.

From a business perspective it's harder but if it was the only way they could keep their network afloat, I'm sure the could get the FCC to let them implement emergency throttling.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#65

Post by [deleted] »

arcboii92 wrote: post #36
nreece wrote: post #6

Here in Australia, a few responsible providers like Aussie Broadband have already announced unmetered data usage and temporarily stopping all service suspensions. https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/blog/aussie-broadband-ann... Edit: The real test though will be the bandwidth of our gov-sponsored, substandard, widely FTTN (instead of full FTTP).

As a kiwi it blows my mind how bad your broadband is over there. My cousin recently moved to some rural Aussie town and will be getting 25 megabit, tops. Here in NZ we're rolling out 4 gigabit connections nationwide over the next 6 months. EDIT: props for getting rid of limits and disconnects though. NZ providers are just saying we'll be able to cope with everyone working from home because we have a fancy network.

[deleted]

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#66

Post by Johnny555 »

wwarner wrote: post #49
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how do you establish effective rationing with no preparation? It's nigh impossible. Even with preparation, It would be a very difficult and impossibly contentious process.

For the downvoters, I'm just pointing out that removing all caps and limits doesn't automatically create abundance. As far as establishing effective policy: ISPs have a lot of practice rationing bandwidth, I'm sure there's a way that's fair enough. Putting a price on it is a good start.

For the downvoters, I'm just pointing out that removing all caps and limits doesn't automatically create abundance.

True, and if they can provide reliable service without the data caps, then it makes the public (and in a perfect world, government regulators) question why they need the data caps at all -- if their network runs fine for months without any data caps, then why do they need those caps at all?

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#67

Post by Dylan16807 »

wwarner wrote: post #49
AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how do you establish effective rationing with no preparation? It's nigh impossible. Even with preparation, It would be a very difficult and impossibly contentious process.

For the downvoters, I'm just pointing out that removing all caps and limits doesn't automatically create abundance. As far as establishing effective policy: ISPs have a lot of practice rationing bandwidth, I'm sure there's a way that's fair enough. Putting a price on it is a good start.

It's easier and fairer to load balance and keep upgrading backhauls when they get full.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#68

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nradov wrote: post #54
sys_64738 wrote: post #9

Internet should be viewed as a utility.

Most other utilities charge based on how much you consume.

Most other utilities have cost structures that scale with actual consumption rather than capacity.

If you use more water, even if there is plenty of delivery capacity, they could literally run out of it. There is only so much in the reservoir.

If you use more electricity, even if there is plenty of transmission capacity, they have to burn more fuel to generate it.

Transferring more bits doesn't risk depleting the supply of bits and doesn't require burning more fuel. The worst it can do is consume all of the available transmission capacity. But the amortized cost of a bit is very low -- if you charged true cost then it wouldn't meaningfully deter usage, so you'd still need about the same total amount of transmission capacity. At which point charging for usage serves no legitimate purpose.

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#69

Post by aidenn0 »

nreece wrote: post #6

Here in Australia, a few responsible providers like Aussie Broadband have already announced unmetered data usage and temporarily stopping all service suspensions. https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/blog/aussie-broadband-ann... Edit: The real test though will be the bandwidth of our gov-sponsored, substandard, widely FTTN (instead of full FTTP).

Australia. The only country that makes the USA look good for broadband...

Re: Don't Terminate People's Internet Connections

#70

Post by gt565k »

aidenn0 wrote: post #69
nreece wrote: post #6

Here in Australia, a few responsible providers like Aussie Broadband have already announced unmetered data usage and temporarily stopping all service suspensions. https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/blog/aussie-broadband-ann... Edit: The real test though will be the bandwidth of our gov-sponsored, substandard, widely FTTN (instead of full FTTP).

Australia. The only country that makes the USA look good for broadband...

Hey... things have gotten better in the states in the last few years. Not great, but metropolitan areas have fiber. My old building that was built in 1965 got wired with AT&T fiber about a year ago.
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