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Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

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Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#61

Post by vidarh »

mattlondon wrote: post #47
vidarh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Norwegian, and the Norwegian system is similar to the Swedish. I live in the UK, though, and so I've seen how expensive and inflexible UK policy, which is much closer to US is Vs. for my brother in Norway. I don't understand how people on more normal incomes do it in places like the UK and US.

Not sure it is so bad in the UK now that we have shared parental leave: I am a father of a recent newborn and I get to share 12 months off (well, 50 weeks since my wife must take at least the first 2 weeks after birth herself) with my wife for our newborn son. We're getting approx £600 a month (so I guess 800-900USD depending on exchange rates today) of free money during the first year from the government (maternity…

What you describe (generous employer payments etc.) is far from the norm in the UK, though. Yes, it's possible to be in a decent situation in the UK too, but usually when you're already in a professional privileged position.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#62

Post by quietthrow »

dmd149 wrote: post #38
quietthrow wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s thinking like yours on the “uneducated” politicians part that leads to polices like the US has today. Income and money are not everything. But alas, untraveled and relatively speaking closed minded citizenry sees their way as righteous as they are honest and hard working people. It’s a pretty bad side effect of being honest, law abiding and hardworking that you feel your way is the right way and perhaps even jus…

I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Sounds like: - Americans are uneducated and under-traveled - There are other values other than money - I think my opinions are correct and Americans are deluding themselves Is that correct?

Happy to elaborate

It’s thinking like yours: families come out ahead by 100k or so

on the “uneducated” politicians part: that persists in today’s legislators

that leads to polices like the US has today: laws that do not mandate parental benefits.

Income and money are not everything: pretty self explanatory.

But alas, untraveled and relatively speaking closed minded citizenry: it’s sad that Americans who have not seen diverse perspectives on what else is possible and how others live due to lack of travel (American geography plays a huge role here too)

sees their way as righteous: holding the belief that you don’t get parental benefits and yes it’s a hard life but it is what it is and people who don’t agree are lazy (Europeans) and/socialist.

as they are honest and hard working people: holds the above mentioned belief very strongly as they are fundamentally people who are had working and honest and hence consider their way makes sense (self confirmation bias)

It’s a pretty bad side effect of being honest, law abiding and hardworking that you feel your way is the right way and perhaps even justified because of ones struggles: when one is honest, hardworking , law abiding and plays by the rules a side effect of that is the strengthens of their belief and values whole sale. Which means seeing and accepting a different perspective is harder for them (look at our political divide today for example)

It’s a cycle the promotes more of the same - status quo: the cycle of hardworking, honesty, civil obedience that begets strengthening of believing that acceptance of way the things are and change is not needed which reinforce hardworking honesty civil obedience which begets .... you get the idea. This is precisely the reason why change in this country takes a very long time. Almost any big change dosnt happen till after a generation and half has passed.

If you have an hour to spare highly recommend watching a documentary about the differences between America and Sweden. If you have amazon prime it’s free to watch on prime video.

https://www.amazon.com/Sweden-Lessons-America-Johan-Norberg/...

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#63

Post by dmd149 »

lsinger wrote: post #59
dmd149 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is more or less what my US based health insurance plan is like, if a bit more expensive ($1200/month for me and my wife, $1500 if adding 1 child). No deductible for in-network care, usually just some small copays of $20. Is this supplemental insurance to national healthcare or the standard cost based on your income?

The latter, it’s based on a percentage of your (taxable, I think) income, capped at what I’m paying (percentage-wise I’d be paying more if it wasn’t capped). FWIW, there’s no notion of “in-network” or “out-network” here.

Interesting. Do you know what your effective tax rate is, inclusive of your health insurance taxes?

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#65

Post by Swizec »

dmd149 wrote: post #55
lsinger wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example from Germany: I pay 860€ per month for health insurance, which covers me, my wife, and our two children. There’s no deductible. Everything is covered, except for tooth replacements that are covered only at between 20% and 50% I believe. You’ll never get a bill from a doctor or hospital in Germany, except for those tooth replacements. The most I’ll pay is a small copay for drugs, usually about 5€, but only for…

That is more or less what my US based health insurance plan is like, if a bit more expensive ($1200/month for me and my wife, $1500 if adding 1 child). No deductible for in-network care, usually just some small copays of $20. Is this supplemental insurance to national healthcare or the standard cost based on your income?

The in/out network thing is a huge problem. My girlfriend went for a checkup with her primary care physician. Obviously in network.

2 months later she gets a bill for $500. Sorry your doc was not in network for that particular question. Insurance covers $0

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#66

Post by polotics »

cryptica wrote: post #41

That's the result of having a country with a smaller population. This gives citizens more even access to quality education and more even access to all kinds of opportunities.

That is super weird logic, very interesting. How do you think can a smaller population change anything?

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#67

Post by dmd149 »

dmd149 wrote: post #38
quietthrow wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s thinking like yours on the “uneducated” politicians part that leads to polices like the US has today. Income and money are not everything. But alas, untraveled and relatively speaking closed minded citizenry sees their way as righteous as they are honest and hard working people. It’s a pretty bad side effect of being honest, law abiding and hardworking that you feel your way is the right way and perhaps even jus…

I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Sounds like: - Americans are uneducated and under-traveled - There are other values other than money - I think my opinions are correct and Americans are deluding themselves Is that correct?

Responding to quieththrow’s response to this comment:

1. My thinking was basically posing a question about take-home income of an American vs a Swede and to what extent a higher take-home pay can buy some of the same benefits.

2. Don’t know why choosing policies that do not force Americans to pay higher taxes in exchange for government-mandated benefits makes legislators “uneducated.” Seems like you simply disagree with the preference for lower taxes and less social benefits and are calling people who disagree with you “dumb.”

3. I’m not sure why you think traveling will make Americans think like you. Also not convinced that Americans travel less than others. Happy to look at any evidence you supply.

4. No one claimed anything about righteousness. Personally, I find left-leaning folks always speaking in moral terms “evil capitalists/rich, stealing form the poor, etc.” I’m trying to gather quantitative data (net income) to help further the discussion.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#68

Post by lotsofpulp »

dmd149 wrote: post #54
lotsofpulp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let’s sacrifice the best child bearing years of our lives so that we can outcompete someone else who didn’t sacrifice the best child bearing years of their lives, and then increase the probability of spending a good portion of those savings on fertility treatments. There can exist a balance between investing in one’s future versus enjoying the present. Nature doesn’t make each day equivalent to the next, and it’…

Okay. What I gather from your comment is that you believe Sweden is superior to the US in the sense that culturally, they are not as enamored of the rat race and reinforce their preferences for a more balanced life with social policies funded by relatively high tax rates (when compared to the US). Whereas in the US, we are more into “getting ahead” in our prime years and this is reinforced by our social and tax polic…

Pretty sure that data is uncollectible, due to the amount of work it would take to normalize taxes across many decades and the difficulty in simply sourcing it in the first place.

But at the end of the day, what matters is how secure a new mother and father feel and how much time they get to spend with their child. Obviously, one can sacrifice this in the pursuit of income, but who would want their children to have to choose between future financial security and bonding with a newborn?

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#69

Post by lsinger »

dmd149 wrote: post #63
lsinger wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter, it’s based on a percentage of your (taxable, I think) income, capped at what I’m paying (percentage-wise I’d be paying more if it wasn’t capped). FWIW, there’s no notion of “in-network” or “out-network” here.

Interesting. Do you know what your effective tax rate is, inclusive of your health insurance taxes?

I’m a freelancer, so this might not be a generalizable answer, but for every Euro I make, I pay about 0.3 Euros in taxes and health insurance.

Re: Two New Moms Return to Work – One in Seattle, One in Stockholm

#70

Post by pintxo »

dmd149 wrote: post #63
lsinger wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter, it’s based on a percentage of your (taxable, I think) income, capped at what I’m paying (percentage-wise I’d be paying more if it wasn’t capped). FWIW, there’s no notion of “in-network” or “out-network” here.

Interesting. Do you know what your effective tax rate is, inclusive of your health insurance taxes?

You may want to play around with this calculator (German only, sorry, google translate likely to the rescue): https://www.brutto-netto-rechner.info/
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