Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

emissionsanalytics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 336 posts

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#61

Post by taneq »

furtive808 wrote: post #34
thinkcontext wrote: post #30

> Using a popular family hatchback running on brand new, correctly inflated tyres, we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles. So this is based on n=1, very suspicious. If tires really were this big a source of PM emissions then how would levels in US cities gone down through vehicle pollution control measures. Something is not adding up here.

At that rate you would burn through the whole set of tires in less than 50,000km, so how is it possible? Could it be those nubs on new tires are accounting for a majority of the waste up front?

Do most people’s tyres last longer than 50k kms? Maybe I’m doing something wrong...

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#62

Post by landtuna »

taneq wrote: post #61
furtive808 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that rate you would burn through the whole set of tires in less than 50,000km, so how is it possible? Could it be those nubs on new tires are accounting for a majority of the waste up front?

Do most people’s tyres last longer than 50k kms? Maybe I’m doing something wrong...

I think the 50k is to make the tires disappear

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#63

Post by a3n »

_Microft wrote: post #32

Maybe offtopic but a surprising bit of extra information regarding wear and vehicles: Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles (e.g. VW Polo, maybe an older VW Golf might only weigh 1t as well): (8t axle load / 0.5t axle load) = 16^4, i.e. the truck puts 2^16 (6553…

> Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles ...

Truck driver. Not quibbling, just adding nuance.

For your typical 40t scenario, allowed max weights are:

12,00 pounds on the front steering axle. It has one tire at each end.

34,000 pounds total on the two tandem "drive" axles on the truck. There are two tires at the end of each axle, so four per axle, eight total at the drive axles, and ten total on the truck.

34,000 pounds on the two tandem axles on the trailer, two tires at the end of each axle, eight total on the trailer axles, 18 total on the truck plus trailer rig.

34K + 34K + 12K = 80,000 pounds = 40t, if the trailer is fully loaded to max. It's about 35,000 pounds total if the trailer is empty.

So you should include in your calculations that the load is spread out over eighteen tires, as above.

There is also bridge loading to consider. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bridge_Gross_Weight_Fo...

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#64

Post by smt88 »

taneq wrote: post #61
furtive808 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that rate you would burn through the whole set of tires in less than 50,000km, so how is it possible? Could it be those nubs on new tires are accounting for a majority of the waste up front?

Do most people’s tyres last longer than 50k kms? Maybe I’m doing something wrong...

Good tires driving on mostly paved roads should last at least 120k kms. In the US, you pay $120-200 per tire for those, but they also come with a warranty that will replace them for free if they wear out before the distance advertised.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#65

Post by dukoid »

abyssin wrote: post #37
_Microft wrote: post #32

Maybe offtopic but a surprising bit of extra information regarding wear and vehicles: Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles (e.g. VW Polo, maybe an older VW Golf might only weigh 1t as well): (8t axle load / 0.5t axle load) = 16^4, i.e. the truck puts 2^16 (6553…

I remember a hitchhiking ride in France with a man working in the building and infrastructure industry telling me about these figures, and the intense lobbying against transporting goods on rails...

In France the rubber tyre lobby is so strong, the got them on subway cars. No joke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#66

Post by rad_gruchalski »

vinw wrote: post #27
benkuhn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that they weakened the wording in that section of the body, but the description of the actual research does make it sound like the factor of 1,000 was a typical case, not the worst case: > Using a popular family hatchback running on brand new, correctly inflated tyres, we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles. > > Compared with regulated exhaust emission limits of 4.5 milligrams pe…

5.8 grams per kilometer would mean in only 10,000 KM your tyres lose 58 Kg. Seems way off.

I’m really sorry but SI is SI. It’s literally “km” for kilometre and “kg” for kilogram.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#67

Post by o-__-o »

taneq wrote: post #61
furtive808 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that rate you would burn through the whole set of tires in less than 50,000km, so how is it possible? Could it be those nubs on new tires are accounting for a majority of the waste up front?

Do most people’s tyres last longer than 50k kms? Maybe I’m doing something wrong...

Yes. A high UTQG rating will mean your tires will last forever at the expense of traction, road noise, etc. The last set of tires I bought at Costco lasted 70k miles, but also increased wet stopping distance and introduced a roar to cabin noise. My latest set have a UTQG near 0 and will only last about 10k miles but they make no noise and have insane amounts of grip (think race car tire)

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#69

Post by a3n »

kevingadd wrote: post #2

When I first moved to the SF bay area I didn't have AC in my apartment so I had to leave the windows open during the summer. After a year of leaving them open there was a thick coat of tire dust all along the windowsill since my window faced a road. :x

In the 70s I live in an apartment adjacent to Interstate H-1 in Honolulu. Same experience. Lanai furniture black. Don't know if tire or exhaust caused, but it was black and disturbing and probably in my lungs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_H-1

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#70

Post by amelius »

_Microft wrote: post #32

Maybe offtopic but a surprising bit of extra information regarding wear and vehicles: Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles (e.g. VW Polo, maybe an older VW Golf might only weigh 1t as well): (8t axle load / 0.5t axle load) = 16^4, i.e. the truck puts 2^16 (6553…

> Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect.

Yes. Electric vehicles with their heavy batteries also make things worse.

Post reply on HN