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What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

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Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#61

Post by bdcravens »

scarface74 wrote: post #31
reflectiv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complex javascript apps just weren't a thing...hell, it took google writing Gmail (2004) to really show everyone that a large SPA using javascript was even possible. After Gmail...things really started to move in the javascript world...people started to put effort into both the runtimes and the libraries.

Let’s give credit where it’s due. The first large scale use of AJAX was Microsoft using it in Outlook Mail for the web in 2000.

That wasn't just the first large scale use of it, that's when AJAX was invented.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#62

Post by slivanes »

btilly wrote: post #34

JavaScript is a fascinating example of Microsoft successfully getting a giant own goal. The promise of the web was cross platform applications that required no installation. Microsoft's fear was that cross platform applications would make the operating system irrelevant and reduce Windows lock-in. Both Sun (with Java) and Netscape wanted Microsoft's worst fears to happen. This was the era of Embrace-Extend-Extinguish…

Back before XmlHttpRequest, you could "poll" for server information using a hidden IFRAME.

XmlHttpRequest + JSON formalized this type of data transfer.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#64

Post by tabtab »

steego wrote: post #30
rdiddly wrote: post #16

Wow, apparently JavaScript was 100% great and there was nothing at all negative about it ever, according to people in tech!

That's because they hadn't used it yet. :) In all seriousness, everyone was in on Java. Even Microsoft (Everyone was in on Java, even Microsoft ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B ). So most of us saw browser plugins and applets as the future, and some of those plug-ins were very impressive in those days. JavaScript was seen as a glue language to manipulate components built in better languages. We thought…

I also thought Java was the future. But, Java tried to be an entire virtual OS, and gained too many security holes because of that. Flash had a similar fate.

It's not that JavaScript solved that, it's that it's built into the browser such that you can't really skip it. Like the Java and Flash engine, a web browser is also a fat bloated leaky client. However, if you toss the first two, you are then dealing with 1 fat client instead of 3 fat clients. It's easier to keep 1 FC up to date than 3.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#65

Post by geerlingguy »

technion wrote: post #58
aazaa wrote: post #5

The release of JavaScript was deeply confusing to me as a developer back then. Java applets and Macromedia Flash were already touted by their vendors as the one true way forward for interactivity. The scripting language released at about the same time seemed like an oddball. It's easy to forget, but for years after its introduction JavaScript didn't work well. It was extremely slow, limiting the complexity of what co…

Back when I first played with Javascript I don't think anyone even used the name. Tutorials were all about "DHTML", where you were building "Dynamic HTML" by writing Javascript to move items around.

It seemed like 99% of the Javascript I found was little hacks to have some string of text move around with your cursor, or to make the status bar scroll some text.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#66

Post by Avamander »

jasonhansel wrote: post #6
danaliv wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is all marketing/partnership fluff. I'd be much more interested in seeing flame wars from Usenet. :) I was programming back then but I don't remember what the sentiment was at the time. I just remember Microsoft insisting on calling it "JScript" or "ActiveScript" or something because they didn't want to give Java any mindshare over ActiveX.

Yep. IE went so far as to add support for VBScript (a language based on visual basic) to compete.

I now wish there'd be actual Python on the web.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#67

Post by wslh »

JavaScript was used for very simple things when it was launched. Most pages used it for modifying button images when you hover or press a button, and for handling some web form operations. As others say JavaScript was very confusing, a programming language that was launched with Java in its name and to fill gaps in HTML limitations but there was no clear direction towards web app programming. Another confusing aspect was that Java was created for this purpose (to create web apps via applets).

We should not forget Macromedia Flash, it was a very interesting option offering a better programming language but it was not an standard with an open source reference.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#68

Post by carterehsmith »

scarface74 wrote: post #31
reflectiv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complex javascript apps just weren't a thing...hell, it took google writing Gmail (2004) to really show everyone that a large SPA using javascript was even possible. After Gmail...things really started to move in the javascript world...people started to put effort into both the runtimes and the libraries.

Let’s give credit where it’s due. The first large scale use of AJAX was Microsoft using it in Outlook Mail for the web in 2000.

Indeed.

Microsoft also exposed all of that HTML/JS engine as COM or whatever component, so it could be used by applications other than browser.

I remember using Microsoft Money -- personal accounting software -- and it seemed to be all built on that HTML/JS engine.

Re: What people in tech had to say about JavaScript when it debuted in 1995 (2017)

#70

Post by cnasc »

rathel wrote: post #55

I wonder what the alternative reality could be in which browsers adopted Tcl instead.

That might be an interesting counterfactual for a blog post (or series). What if {x} had been the dominant web scripting language?

What does that language offer that JS can’t match, and what trade offs does it make to get there? I suppose you’d have to write a hypothetical spec for dom APIs, etc that don’t exist in the target language, and then pretend to use it and see what the pain points/unexpected pleasures are.

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