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How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

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Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#61

Post by _TwoFinger »

nradov wrote: post #17
alexgmcm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked it - I felt it didn't really answer the question it seemed to set out with though. That is - there was a time when it looked like the USSR was genuinely going to catch up with and surpass the USA, how did they manage this and where did it go wrong?

The USSR was never actually catching up. With access to more accurate historical data we now know that much of their reported economic development was based on falsified official statistics.

They might have falsified the statistics in order to boost people's morale, but they were also very serious about actually progressing.

Bulgaria was under USSR's wing when I was a kid, and I have first-hand experience about that.

There was this thing called "kruzhoks", (a Russian word, diminutive of "circle", like in "circle of friends"), which were after-school interest-based clubs, mainly about technical stuff. Every other kid was a member of some kind of kruzhok. Back then I didn't realize that, but the state must have had some sort of "master plan" to prepare as many kids as possible for technical careers when they grow up.

I also distinctly remember the exceptional quality of the textbooks (math, mechanics, electronics). The content was presented in a pedagogical order, with increasing difficulty, and carefully selected exercises that helped the concepts sink in. I used Russian textbooks from the 60's and 70's up until I graduated the university in 2005. (I'm a mechanical engineer, physics hasn't changed much since then, heh.) The typography was also excellent. When I first saw LaTeX output, the first thing that came to mind was Russian textbooks. I don't know how they did it back then.

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#62

Post by goatinaboat »

naveen99 wrote: post #36
macspoofing wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's hard and especially hard for monolithic systems (i.e. governments) to go up against private enterprises in certain spaces. Governments are really good at funding cutting edge research that does not have an immediate or obvious market (e.g. early internet, space exploration, fundamental physics research, etc.). Governments are not good at actually competing in a space where there is a market and private c…

Yeah, I guess it’s more profitable for them to just collect taxes from Microsoft instead. But I am not sure it can’t be done. What if the government deployed desktops to all citizens that were centrally administered, and requires them to be used for all government business / taxes, public services. Clearly I am talking about a dystopian society... but I don’t see why some dictator or communist wouldn’t want to implem…

What if the government deployed desktops to all citizens that were centrally administered, and requires them to be used for all government business / taxes, public services.

France tried this, le Minitel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#63

Post by primity »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #37
atmin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just some member, but the leader. He did know how to behave in this role (including allowing such stories become widespread), he was the leader for 45 years.

This is interesting. Are you implying a leader’s job was to act silly and maintain an image of a not-so-smart but relatable guy while the party was doing its shady deeds? A comic relief mask of sorts?

It's not unheard of for a leader to tell a joke

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#64

Post by Koshkin »

qubex wrote: post #31
cambalache wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't like it. I mean, the argument and data were interesting. What bothered me was the narrative, it was trite and disingenuous and clearly written by a clueless white guy.

I don’t really see how the author being white or male has anything to do with whether it’s accurate or not.

Some of the possibilities are: an agenda; a "personal perspective"; an unconscious bias.

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#65

Post by Koshkin »

naveen99 wrote: post #18
nimbius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Soviet satellite it was in an excellent position to do so. the USSR was first in space, first to the moon, and first to invent the universally programmable computer, the MESM. in 1958 they even invented the first mobile phones.

I wonder why the Russians or even the Chinese or Indians haven’t publicly attempted to clone Microsoft Windows (a desktop os). There is a Russian Linux distro. But I would think it would be more productive to have an international software arms race than a military / space arms race.

I guess, the answer might be that by the time Windows became popular USSR had been no more.

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#66

Post by Koshkin »

m0zg wrote: post #52

The first 286 I've worked on (in the USSR) was Bulgarian. It was pretty crappy, but still, 286 DOS software ran on it just fine. CGA display. Arkanoid, Prince of Persia, good times. At the time the USSR did not produce its own PC-compatible computers.

> pretty crappy

> just fine

So... Which was it?

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#67

Post by buzzkillington »

varjag wrote: post #12
buzzkillington wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At its peak, Bulgaria supplied 40% of the computers in COMECON. The electronics industry employed 300,000 workers, and it generated 8 billion rubles a year. [0] That's on top of a population of just under 9 million and a working age population of 6 million [1], so 5% of the workforce was involved in the production of computer hardware alone. It seems there was a very large bet on the computer industry from the commu…

Vast majority of the electronic industry were not computer production, so you're off by a magnitude for sure.

Computer hardware included everything from magnetic platters for hard drives to crt displays to the silicon wafers.

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#68

Post by Barrin92 »

gallegojaime wrote: post #49
UncleSlacky wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Command economies might work better now that we have the capability to transmit accurate market information in (near) real time.

we're probably way too clueless on that, but it would be interesting to try out. Chile's Project Cybersyn was coordinating productivity all the way back in the 70s, with Telex machines. Perhaps we can bottle some markets' behavior into computers and good C&C human structures.

>Chile's Project Cybersyn was coordinating productivity

should be pointed out that it was coordinating economic activity not in a 'command economy' sense. The project actually aimed to drastically decentralize economic decision making by applying cybernetic principles to factory work. The goal was for local managers to be able to respond to data in real time. De Beer's so called 'cybernetic factory' was even received positively by Hayek, who was not known for being a fan of command economies.

Re: How communist Bulgaria became a leader in technology, robotics and sci-fi (2018)

#69

Post by m0zg »

Koshkin wrote: post #66
m0zg wrote: post #52

The first 286 I've worked on (in the USSR) was Bulgarian. It was pretty crappy, but still, 286 DOS software ran on it just fine. CGA display. Arkanoid, Prince of Persia, good times. At the time the USSR did not produce its own PC-compatible computers.

> pretty crappy > just fine So... Which was it?

A crappy computer can run programs just fine. I don't see a contradiction. It was poorly made, just like the rest of Eastern Bloc stuff.
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