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The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

jarednelsen.dev

61–70 of 851 posts

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#61
post #45

In my personal experience, having interviewed dozens of candidates (data science), I believe that asking "easy" and "simple" questions is the most effective way to probe the problem-solving skills of a candidate. Fun and interesting solutions to easy questions are hallmarks of great individuals. The question would go like this: Suppose I have a column-oriented file and I want to print out a column in a reverse-sorted…

How do you sort an infinite stream?

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#62

In addition to all of the very dystopian examples given in this post, there are other non-technical, super-dystopian things that have been popping up as "trends" in the tech industry. Ever heard of top-grading? It's the most oppressive interview technique of all time. A series of grueling multi-person interviews. A retrospective of all work experiences since high school . You also have to get multiple prior employers…

Personally I'd call off the interview and let them know they need to rethink their hiring practices. If that's how they interview the company probably is horrible to work for anyways.

I believe this is becoming more common.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#63

I've been doing initial phone screens (small companies) this week (two just today, actually), and with all of them when the recruiter (internal or external) gets to the "we'd like to send you a coding challenge" I interject with: "Let's do a code exchange. I'll point you at some of my GH projects, and you send me some of your code". So far they've accepted ("I'll forward it to the hiring manager"), and it's far too s…

I interviewed with a start-up mid-acquisition by Indeed and they paid me for my take-home project. Quality move but the rest of their behaviour was utterly reprehensible. I was mad/upset at the time but I'm now grateful.

Also, I had the time available to spend ~8-10 hours on a take-home project (paid or otherwise); most of the time the best candidates already have jobs and will rightfully tell you to pound sand.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#64
I think Giant Search and Advertising should make the interview more difficult, then more difficult still, then cease hiring entirely, then atrophy employees until they die and/or are legislated out of existence. You - yes, you, HN reader who already works at one of these companies - are ethically responsible for the actions of your employer. When you're the one on the front lines helping realize their dystopian dreams, then the blame falls on you. Don't work for FAANG.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#65
post #17

Is it possible to create a meaningful coding test that only takes 45 minutes? I would love some examples for front end tests if any one has any.

Not "front end" (I assume you mean stuff like React) but many of these are candidates for coding tests in interviews: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Programming_Tasks

Though some would take longer than 45 minutes.

archived version from feb 2019 since cloudflare dns seems to be broken atm: https://web.archive.org/web/20190219135427/http://rosettacod...

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#66

In addition to all of the very dystopian examples given in this post, there are other non-technical, super-dystopian things that have been popping up as "trends" in the tech industry. Ever heard of top-grading? It's the most oppressive interview technique of all time. A series of grueling multi-person interviews. A retrospective of all work experiences since high school . You also have to get multiple prior employers…

A few words on top grading. We are use a top grading like process, and are pretty flexible on the references part of it. It is just a long conversation. I think it is a structured and simple way to talk about a person and where they have been. Yes, it is comprehensive, but it works well. We hire almost all candidates that have made it to the top grading stage of our hiring process. We don’t use it to find liars and don’t think of it like that. What it really is good at is finding patterns of behavior in someone’s life and work history. It’s not full of campy dumb mental problem questions. You just talk about yourself and your work history and how you relate to previous colleagues and managers. And it’s done consistently to make it a little more comparable from one person to the next. The reference checks are one of the most useful and valuable parts of the whole process (we are flexible here, we are a small company). I can see how this process could get morphed into something less friendly, but at the end of the day it’s a huge time investment for us and the candidate so we don’t embark upon it lightly. I haven’t found a better interviewing technique that takes the pain out of it for the employee and the employer. Our team all appreciated the process and we take their feedback seriously. We don’t follow all of the steps in top grading religiously, but the interviewing process is really good. We also read a lot of other books on building a hiring process and settled on top grading as the most consistent and logical. The few people we didn’t hire threw up major red flags in their interview process in terms of how they would fit in at the company and the work we do. How else should a company hire people? For a small business we try to de-risk the hiring process as much as possible because mishiring is /extremely/ painful. We have grown from 3-20 people organically. Each hire we made was and is very important to our growth and stability.

Edit: just wanted to say I am a partner/founder at my company and we deeply give a shit about what we do and who we work with. Our turnover across 7 years is very, very low. We strive for a good work life harmony with everyone that works with us. You have to have some process to fit people into a company and that means you gotta talk to people and get to know them. The goal is to eliminate interviewer bias as much as humanly possible after the technical screening. So it goes. Not everyone can be pleased and I would defend our hiring practices as very reasonable and humanistic in an otherwise crazy tech interviewing system at the FAANGs of the world.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#67

Comedian Daniel Tosh had a bit about people that claimed to be smart, it's just that they were just bad at taking tests. He said, "oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you actually know?" I hear a lot of complaints about the "typical" software engineering hiring process, and it usually comes from the people that don't do well within the current system. Could the process be improved? Almost certain…

I think there's truth to what you're saying, but I also think it screens out a lot of false negatives (which is kind of its intent since they'd rather that than false positives).

For me personally the process gives me a lot of anxiety/fear to the point where I won't do them even when I know I want to. I suspect a lot of the negative sentiment around interviews or talk about their 'ineffectiveness' is just this fear being poorly interpreted.

I think the technical interview process is also just a separate skill to master that has some overlap with programming, but is mostly getting good at leetcode style problems. It reminds me of things like the SAT for college.

There's a lot of failure necessary most of the time to succeed that I think scares people away because they do one and fail and then think they're not good or smart enough. I think I did ten different phone screens and three or four on sites before getting hired by a famous company. Some of those I totally bombed and others went really well - there's a randomness to it depending on the question you get and the specific interviewer.

I wish this wasn't the case and things were better because it'd be really fun to work on interesting projects with different people at different companies, but the barrier to changing is so tedious it's often better to stay put at a local maximum.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#68

Comedian Daniel Tosh had a bit about people that claimed to be smart, it's just that they were just bad at taking tests. He said, "oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you actually know?" I hear a lot of complaints about the "typical" software engineering hiring process, and it usually comes from the people that don't do well within the current system. Could the process be improved? Almost certain…

> Google might not need you to code some efficient algorithm to search a b-tree every day, but they pay top dollar and can rightly expect that their software engineers can come up with efficient and creative solutions to hard problems without dragging the rest of their team down.

This is a non-sequitur. Being able to write good software has nothing to do with reading cracking the coding interview and practicing leetcode for an interview in an environment that bears no resemblance to how work is actually done.

But hey, that's fine—they just leave good talent for others to hire.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#69

Comedian Daniel Tosh had a bit about people that claimed to be smart, it's just that they were just bad at taking tests. He said, "oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you actually know?" I hear a lot of complaints about the "typical" software engineering hiring process, and it usually comes from the people that don't do well within the current system. Could the process be improved? Almost certain…

People are completing 500+ problems on leetcode before heading into interviews at google. Don't believe me? Go read the teamblind forums. People might spend six months studying, after which they pass a bunch of interviews and get good comp. Getting just one offer from a FAANG company often doesnt pay well enough, you need multiple competing ones. If you think this has anything to do with incompetent people complainin…

having just recently (in the last 2 weeks) completed >100 problems on leetcode i can affirmatively tell you that it's not actually that difficult to game this system. i read elements of programming interviews (took about a month of a couple of hours a day) and then just blitzgrieged leetcode. this was all in prep for a FAANG internship tech screen i had yesterday. it went well (not perfect but well).

but it is true that these questions bear no resemblance to software engineering so it does feel silly going through the process.

Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews

#70

In my admittedly limited experience, there's one way to avoid such nonsensical interviews - run away from bureaucracy. Seek smaller organizations (startups in particular) and if you're lucky enough to have a minimally cross-disciplinary background, you can seek out niche organizations where you'll interview with technical specialists who'll ask reasonable questions that are actually related to your work and your inte…

“ mountains of red tape, processes upon processes, overwork and burnout, and best of all, you get to spend your best years infecting society with the cancer that is adtech.”

Your mileage will vary depending on the team you land on.

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