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Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

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Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#61

Post by m-p-3 »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #28
nathanaldensr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paint3D is an atrocious, poorly-designed app. Tools are all over the place, familiar shortcuts have disappeared, and the UI looks like it was designed for the Windows 8 vision of Windows-on-a-tablet. No thanks. WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time.

Use rufus to burn a linux iso and install over the top. No more windows. Really need something? Run it in wine. Break away from Microsofts abusive ecosystem.

If you're a gamer who relies on multiplayer, some anticheats (ie: EAC) makes this an impossibility.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#62

Post by binarycrusader »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #42
binarycrusader wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not especially when you include localization and 32 and 64 bit versions needed for app compat.

If localization is that bulky, then installing a pile of locales should be the optional feature. Why does app compat need two separate executables? And compatibility isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one...

Localizations are generally provided by a combination of "Language Packs" and "Satellite Packages" [0] so it works as you expect. But the ability to have "dynamic localization" has a cost in and of itself since localization is not just merely text but in some cases program code as well.

As for two executables? It's complicated and there are application compatibility considerations.

I don't know what you're referring to with "isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one".

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactur...

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#63

Post by binarycrusader »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #29
chrisseaton wrote: post #6

Makes sense - if you don’t need them why have them installed. I wish operating systems had better ways to let you install less stuff .

It doesn't make sense. Paint and notepad provide basic functionality and are less than a megabyte (and the size could be optimized more). Making them optional provides zero real-world benefit, with the downside that now some systems now have no way to edit a text file.

Making them optional provides zero real-world benefit, with the downside that now some systems now have no way to edit a text file.

Consider that unused features don't need to be downloaded, reduce OS footprint, reduce update downtime, and reduce bandwidth usage during updates all of which can benefit both the customer and the supplier.

Also consider that not all environments need specific functionality or may purposefully want to remove it for a variety of reasons.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#64

Post by leeoniya »

m-p-3 wrote: post #60
leeoniya wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, it's unfortunate, but they need to make money somehow. at least they're not bundling anything with the install (AFAIK) https://www.dotpdn.com/downloads/pdn.html

Or you can buy it on the MS Store to contribute.

or donate directly

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#65

Post by Dylan16807 »

binarycrusader wrote: post #62
Dylan16807 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If localization is that bulky, then installing a pile of locales should be the optional feature. Why does app compat need two separate executables? And compatibility isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one...

Localizations are generally provided by a combination of "Language Packs" and "Satellite Packages" [0] so it works as you expect. But the ability to have "dynamic localization" has a cost in and of itself since localization is not just merely text but in some cases program code as well. As for two executables? It's complicated and there are application compatibility considerations. I don't know what you're referring…

> I don't know what you're referring to with "isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one".

The news is that you can remove all versions, and I'm saying that's not a major space savings.

So when you mention there are two versions, to say the space savings are larger... okay, that's true, but if you're removing the program then you don't care about app compat anyway. So you could remove one, and leave the other one alone.

Or in other words, the existence of two versions is not something that makes it a better idea to remove everything.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#66

Post by [deleted] »

binarycrusader wrote: post #57
Dylan16807 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing these will actually remove files from the system and not just links. It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link. > This is definitely not the reason. Definitely? Even though they completely removed mspaint.exe from some…

It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link. This is not true in this case and is probably due to some interpretation of how packages are installed in Desktop editions of Windows. In Desktop editions of Windows, many OS files (not a…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#67

Post by Dylan16807 »

binarycrusader wrote: post #57
Dylan16807 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing these will actually remove files from the system and not just links. It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link. > This is definitely not the reason. Definitely? Even though they completely removed mspaint.exe from some…

It removes a copy. There's still another one in the installation archive. If you have your system set to CompactOS mode, which you would presumably do if you were worried about space, I think it really would just be removing a link. This is not true in this case and is probably due to some interpretation of how packages are installed in Desktop editions of Windows. In Desktop editions of Windows, many OS files (not a…

Oh. So it really will save space, but as a FOD you won't be able to install notepad offline. (On a system by itself.)

I find that worse.

> Choices of which product features are supported are orthogonal to the Features On Demand platform technology.

On a technical level they're separate. But on a "we're trying to deprioritize this to get people off of it" level, they're both worth considering.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#68

Post by LetThereBeNick »

leeoniya wrote: post #43
nathanaldensr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paint3D is an atrocious, poorly-designed app. Tools are all over the place, familiar shortcuts have disappeared, and the UI looks like it was designed for the Windows 8 vision of Windows-on-a-tablet. No thanks. WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time.

> WIN+R, mspaint, ENTER--every time. i prefer https://www.getpaint.net/

“Ctrl+Alt+P” does it for me. Right click a paint shortcut > Properties > Shortcut > type “P” :)

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#69

Post by binarycrusader »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #65
binarycrusader wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Localizations are generally provided by a combination of "Language Packs" and "Satellite Packages" [0] so it works as you expect. But the ability to have "dynamic localization" has a cost in and of itself since localization is not just merely text but in some cases program code as well. As for two executables? It's complicated and there are application compatibility considerations. I don't know what you're referring…

> I don't know what you're referring to with "isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one". The news is that you can remove all versions, and I'm saying that's not a major space savings. So when you mention there are two versions, to say the space savings are larger... okay, that's true , but if you're removing the program then you don't care about app compat anyway. So you could remove one, and leave the ot…

I'm saying that's not a major space savings.

Consider two things you may have not: low storage space systems that need to prioritize security updates over functionality where every megabyte matters, and savings at sufficient scale from reduced bandwidth, cpu usage, energy costs, etc.

At the individual system level some things often don’t make sense until you consider them at the scale of hundreds of millions of systems or for particular environments.

This is a good thing, really.

Re: Windows 10 to offer Paint and WordPad as optional features

#70

Post by Dylan16807 »

binarycrusader wrote: post #69
Dylan16807 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what you're referring to with "isn't a reason to remove two versions instead of one". The news is that you can remove all versions, and I'm saying that's not a major space savings. So when you mention there are two versions, to say the space savings are larger... okay, that's true , but if you're removing the program then you don't care about app compat anyway. So you could remove one, and leave the ot…

I'm saying that's not a major space savings. Consider two things you may have not: low storage space systems that need to prioritize security updates over functionality where every megabyte matters, and savings at sufficient scale from reduced bandwidth, cpu usage, energy costs, etc. At the individual system level some things often don’t make sense until you consider them at the scale of hundreds of millions of syste…

Those systems should not be running a >10GB OS...

And no matter what, notepad should be near the bottom of the list of things to make removable.

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