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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#61

Post by dTal »

sandov wrote: post #49
dTal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to be clear, your position is that the very concept of regulation is illegitimate? "I know what is best for you, so I'll force you to make the car safety features I want".

It may be legitimate when the regulated action causes direct physical harm to someone else. For example: I think it's reasonable to regulate particulate emissions. It's not legitimate to regulate manufacture or commercialization of products when that manufacture or commercialization poses no direct threat to the physical well-being of other individuals.

Why draw the line at physical well-being? Why should it be fine to waste someone's time, cost them money, even destroy them emotionally, so long as you don't directly physically harm them?

Your scope is absurdly narrow.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#62

Post by sh1mmer »

If Apple are really bothered by this they should just make 2 versions (lightening and USB-C) and let consumers choose.

They already do multiple versions for radios (GSM vs CDMA) so I can’t imagine this would be a terrible challenge for them other than losing lightening cable licensing fees.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#63

Post by SiempreViernes »

lukifer wrote: post #35
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #30

I'm not sure how I feel about the requirements to unify the cables, but does the Lightening port offer advantages does over USB-C?

This is an instance where I oppose the idea in the abstract, but support it in the specifics: USB-C has finally achieved a degree of "good enough" (naming/labeling issues notwithstanding) to be the ideal universal connector. But: imagine what we might have gotten stuck with if this law had been implemented 10-20 years ago.

While this resolution isn't actually a law, it does call for the commission to ensure standards get updated as technology develops, so I'm not seeing why we should imagine us being extra stuck with some old technology.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#64

Post by nemothekid »

vincnetas wrote: post #45
nemothekid wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this legislation?

Well legislations are not written in stone. If there is a reasonable need for upgraded standard in future legislation can be updated.

>If there is a reasonable need for upgraded standard

Are you saying that politicians should be designing technical standards? And how will you ever know there is a need for a new standard if you can't even deploy it?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#65

Post by happytoexplain »

reaperducer wrote: post #51
tanilama wrote: post #46

I can't see a single reason why iPhone shouldn't use usb-c at the moment except to build Apple's own walled garden to charge a surplus against its customer.

Because lightning was available long before USB-C and there's no reason that hundreds of millions of customers should have to switch to new cables and throw billions of old chargers, wires, and accessories into landfills? When USB-C is superior for using on phones, then I'm OK with it. But right now it's just exchanging one plug for another because a bunch of bureaucrats say so. Does this mean in 20 years we'll still…

>no reason

Standardization is a fantastic reason. Hundreds of millions of people have to switch to new cables, chargers, adapters, and devices every once in a while anyway, and if that never happened, these products would not have advanced. Progress is good. You may argue the environmental point, but there's no reason to connect that with this transition and not the many others.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#67

Post by murderfs »

birdyrooster wrote: post #41
theslurmmustflo wrote: post #36

I'll miss lightning when it's gone if only because it was the most satisfying and secure feeling cable connection I've ever used. USB-C has some slack built into it by design but it just makes it feel lower quality.

The USB-C ports wear out badly after a couple years of use and are loose. Lightning, as you are saying, still feels good after years of daily use. The duty cycle is higher for lightning and should be used for things which are often disconnected and reconnected like mobile devices.

It's usually not the port that's wearing out, but the cable, because USB-C moved the retention clips from the port to the cable.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#68

Post by BinaryIdiot »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #54
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #34

The joint motion points to adopting Directive 2014/53/EU which requires common _chargers_ but says nothing about the port that the phone uses. As far as I can tell this is only for the back half of the charger / brick that connects to the wall. Yet the Apple statement, and most of the articles about this (including the linked one), are talking about the phone's connector and talks about lightning and usb-c. Most of t…

Indeed, the text only speaks of a "common charger" without specifying further, so I'm somewhat surprised you make the claim the directive speaks only about one sub-part of the charger. To me things appear thus: the EP passed a directive that states mobile radio equipment should have a "common charger", sensibly letting manufacturers decide how to solve the interoperability problem. Apple then argued "well, it's not e…

Hmm. You make a good point.

In my attempt at reading both of these there seems to be a clear distinction being made when it refers to cables and when it refers to chargers. It also never really mentions ports.

Therefore, to me, it cares less about the port and cable on the phone half and more about the brick / part that plugs into the wall.

Neither document provides a definition for "charger". So perhaps whoever is in charge of implementing this directive (I'm not sure how this works in EU law) can interpret it either way?

I wish it was more clear.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#69

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

> How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C.

The law does no say what a common charger is. Manufacturers are free to migrate to a new standard.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#70

Post by happytoexplain »

Standardization is like a dream to me, and every time it advances I feel ecstatic. However, it's important to note that standardization must not get in the way of change. Unification does not mean that we can't, in a unified manner, continue to upgrade. At this point in time, this is especially critical to keep in mind, as USB-C is physically flawed - it often becomes loose to the point of losing connection, or even falling out entirely, over time spans as short as one year. This is unacceptable.
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