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U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

latimes.com

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Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#61

Post by guitarbill »

mrec wrote: post #20
advisedwang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One objection is that it allows the initial chicken production to be dirtier as you can then just disinfect later even. In the EU, the entire processing needs to be clean.

Yes, from what I've seen this is the primary objection (aside from realpolitik considerations i.e. wanting to keep agricultural prices high). Salad has routinely been chlorine-washed in Europe for years, and nobody complains about that.

I hope most people would agree chickens are a bit more sentient than salad.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#62

Post by avmich »

take_a_breath wrote: post #39
mxscho wrote: post #13

> Perdue on Monday defended [...] the technique to disinfect poultry [...], arguing that U.S. farmers now use a chemical called peracetic acid rather than chlorine: "Peracetic acid ... is a great pathogen reduction treatment. You know what it is? It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science." I always thought the EU doesn't want this proce…

==It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science.== Why aren't they just using vinegar if it's the same thing?

I think they are not the same thing, not exactly, and the difference is interesting.

Hydrogen peroxide is a rather - comparatively - unstable substance, it decomposes to water and oxygen; hydrogen peroxide is a rather strong oxidizer, which defines a lot of its properties.

I'd assume double -O- bond in peracetic acid behaves the same - decomposes with release of O and acetic acid (or the anion of the acid). This oxidizing effect likely provides the effect which is desired - the same which chlorine would produce, that is, oxidizing a lot of things in chickens making them safer.

I've heard that hydrogen peroxide is used in Europe instead of chlorine in US for water treatment - for example, in swimming pools. I'm not sure why peracetic acid is chosen.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#63

Post by megous »

mxscho wrote: post #13

> Perdue on Monday defended [...] the technique to disinfect poultry [...], arguing that U.S. farmers now use a chemical called peracetic acid rather than chlorine: "Peracetic acid ... is a great pathogen reduction treatment. You know what it is? It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science." I always thought the EU doesn't want this proce…

I don't want meat washed in vinegar, bleh. Maybe co-incidentally, that's how some supermarkets used to prolong the shelf life of meat once it started becomming smelly and sticky. Just washed it like that in vinegar, and re-packaged it. Like 20 years ago. Thanks but no thanks.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#64

Post by samatman »

tryptophan wrote: post #31
mxscho wrote: post #13

> Perdue on Monday defended [...] the technique to disinfect poultry [...], arguing that U.S. farmers now use a chemical called peracetic acid rather than chlorine: "Peracetic acid ... is a great pathogen reduction treatment. You know what it is? It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science." I always thought the EU doesn't want this proce…

>It's vinegar, essentially. Lol. Sure, lets all just drink hydrogen peroxide. It's water, essentially. Peroxides and carboxylic acids(vinegar is an example) are very different things...

Yes, the claim is untrue on its face: peracids and acids are chemically different and have different properties. PR flaks shouldn't be lying to the public, and I don't want to minimize that.

On the other hand, peracetic acid is something I would accept as a chemical treatment without qualms, while chlorine compounds would squick me out. It actually will break down into vinegar when it oxidizes something, and on the surface of raw meat, this process will be completed by the time a consumer gets it.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#65

Post by gambiting »

sneak wrote: post #35
brummm wrote: post #2

I really hope the EU will not allow this kind of US meat into the EU market...

Why? Do you believe it is harmful? If so, why?

I allows horrendous poultry farming practices, which in the US are "fine" because the meat gets washed afterwards anyway, so who cares chickens are standing in their shit until their own feet dissolve - the end product is fine, right?

I'm not a vegetarian, but god I hope the American chicken never enters this market.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#66

Post by magduf »

jldugger wrote: post #49
gadders wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just protectionism. It's not like the chicken tastes of bleach. Have you ever eaten food in the US?

I'm not sure we can trust US resident's opinions on taste as long as Hershey's chocolate still exists.

>I'm not sure we can trust US resident's opinions on taste as long as Hershey's chocolate still exists.

As an American, I agree with you 100%. Our opinions on taste are utterly worthless.

It's not just Hershey's chocolate either (which is already bad enough), it's so many other foods that are commonplace here. Food quality in this country is abysmal. You can get great food here, but it's harder to find and you'll pay dearly for it, but the stuff that regular Americans eat is generally awful.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#67

Post by paganel »

mech1234 wrote: post #48
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is the chemical wash isn't the inherent issue here. It's the fact that they need to be chemically washed in the first place. Due to factory farming, chickens live in piles of their own poop, and with that comes tons of other unhealthy side effects. To combat that, in the US we simply give them a chemical bath. The issue at hand is that the EU doesn't want low quality chicken entering the market becau…

Seems to me like the real motivation is defending their own agricultural industry. American chicken is cheaper and likely just as good. The health claims are weak, everyone can understand protectionism, but it is often masked behind other claimed goals. The data on salmonella is not super solid, but points to higher levels in the U.S. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47440562

The US imported food has been the stuff of jokes in my country for almost 20 years now, even before we entered the EU, and we are an Eastern-European country with all sorts of other problems. Can’t really understand how can many US commenters say that US food is as good and healthy as European food with a straight face.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#68

Post by rokalakt »

mvdwoord wrote: post #44

The Netherlands has a treaty (against the outcome of the referendum) with the Ukraine which allows for effectively undermining our animal welfare policies. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2016/05/ukraine-poultry-giant-... If the EU allows this as well (or finds some weird amended way to do the same while proclaiming something else) what's next?

Who knows what's next. Cheaper Tesla vehicles, more US technology, less regulation around the EU, and so on. This whole "chemical-washed" paranoia is just propaganda from EU farmers, and EU protectionism. I for one welcome cheaper products, so at least people who barely afford food would at least have an option. Certainly if standards of living are so high around the EU no one would buy such products anyway, right?

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#69

Post by threatripper »

Related is the chicken tax [1] on light trucks which is one big reason why SUVs (which are classified as light trucks) are so popular in the US because US companies can make more profit selling them due to the import tariffs stifling the European competition.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#70

Post by cooljacob204 »

sharkmerry wrote: post #51

Some stats. EU - ~500 Million people. "In the EU, over 91,000 salmonellosis cases are reported each year." [1] US. ~330 Million People. "CDC estimates Salmonella bacteria cause about 1.35 million infections, 26,500 hospitalizations, and 420 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for most of these illnesses." [2] 1- https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/salmonella 2- https://www.cdc.gov/salmon…

This is an estimate vs reported cases. Not exactly good numbers to compare.
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