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Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

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Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#61

Post by DanTheManPR »

CydeWeys wrote: post #6

> Is go played anywhere else in the universe, and was it discovered by chance there? > What openings do aliens play? I love these questions about if anyone else in the universe is playing Go. My gut response would be yes -- it's a simple enough game (regular game grid of any size roughly 5x5 on up, one type of piece, two players take turns alternating placing pieces, and any that are surrounded are removed). I suspec…

Connect N type games seem almost certain to exist elsewhere, as are connection games such as Hex. The fundamental concept is very basic, and the there are not a lot of variations.

There are a plethora of abstract games that have been invented that are not played very much, but seem to have the potential for extreme depth of play. I would be willing to bet that some of those neglected games are played by Aliens somewhere in the Universe, and enjoy the level of success in their society that Chess or Go enjoy here.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#62

Post by rdlw »

coldtea wrote: post #57
rdlw wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They move faster at higher levels, and the exact speeds and line clear requirements are arbitrary.

> They move faster at higher levels Which proves it's not gravity -- gravity would move the same speed always (assuming a vacuum game stage), or would move proportionally to air resistance (so based on shape), etc.

Right, but this is called 'gravity' in the game, so I think it's what ggp was talking about

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#63

Post by CydeWeys »

andai wrote: post #49
CydeWeys wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people so quick to assume that every single other alien species would be completely unfathomable to us? We all share the same physics, chemistry, and mathematics of our common universe. For example, there's only three dimensions, and there's only three regular polygons that can tessellate a grid. Unless you're going to posit that there's no alien species whatsoever that will even come up with the concept of a…

So, the smartest animals on earth apart from primates are dolphins, crows and octopuses. But most aliens are portrayed as humanoids. I can't remember a single alien movie with sea creatures or intelligent birds. But if anyone knows some, please let me know :) I think the body shape part is relevant here because it determines what kinds of games are possible or practical. A species of intelligent octopuses might play…

There are some birds that are better at tool use than you might think, too.

It's worth pointing out that Go is a purely mathematical game. You don't need a board at all to play it, especially not if your memory is good enough. Chess Grandmasters don't need boards to play Chess, for example; they can simply say the moves to each other and both will have the same image of the board in their mind.

So you could have intelligent aliens playing Go entirely verbally. Considering how many alien species there are likely to be, perhaps this is almost a certainty?

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#64

Post by Iv »

andai wrote: post #49
CydeWeys wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people so quick to assume that every single other alien species would be completely unfathomable to us? We all share the same physics, chemistry, and mathematics of our common universe. For example, there's only three dimensions, and there's only three regular polygons that can tessellate a grid. Unless you're going to posit that there's no alien species whatsoever that will even come up with the concept of a…

So, the smartest animals on earth apart from primates are dolphins, crows and octopuses. But most aliens are portrayed as humanoids. I can't remember a single alien movie with sea creatures or intelligent birds. But if anyone knows some, please let me know :) I think the body shape part is relevant here because it determines what kinds of games are possible or practical. A species of intelligent octopuses might play…

Movies make humanoid aliens because it is much cheaper. Books are much more various and imagine all sort of body shapes or amorphous possibilities.

I think the assumption there is that the alien race is smart enough and dexterous enough to create machines. Wether they use tentacles, fingers, snouts or talons, it makes sense that such a species develops board games at a moment

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#65

Post by rdlw »

CydeWeys wrote: post #58
rdlw wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They move faster at higher levels, and the exact speeds and line clear requirements are arbitrary.

None of this is that important to the overall game, though. You can turn Tetris into a turn-based puzzle game where you have an unlimited amount of time to place each next piece, it just has to obey the same rules as having overhead clearance on it, and it's still the same game. This is effectively the game that AI players are playing anyway, since they think faster than the pieces fall and thus time is not a constra…

I agree, I'm just clarifying what was meant by

> Board size - gravity rules - scoring etc. are arbitrary

So 'gravity rules' refer to falling speed, which is unimportant and doesn't fundamentally change the game, same with board size.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#66

Post by cylon13 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #59
cylon13 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming a lot about what it means to be an intelligence. It's not the concept of a square that will potentially be missing from an alien lifeform. It's the complex circuitry involved in enjoying board games in the first place. One can imagine an intelligent lifeform evolving differently than us in such a way where the adaptation that makes games fun wasn't required.

Yes, one can imagine some aliens evolving differently such that they don't enjoy games, but all of them ?

Of course not all of them, we enjoy games, and we're the only actual data point we have. But since we're just one data point, we really don't know anything about the probability of different subsystems of the mind evolving. I certainly hope we encounter sentient empathetic aliens that enjoy games as much as we do!

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#67

Post by Iv »

CydeWeys wrote: post #6

> Is go played anywhere else in the universe, and was it discovered by chance there? > What openings do aliens play? I love these questions about if anyone else in the universe is playing Go. My gut response would be yes -- it's a simple enough game (regular game grid of any size roughly 5x5 on up, one type of piece, two players take turns alternating placing pieces, and any that are surrounded are removed). I suspec…

Not exactly a board game but I would expect rock paper scissors game patterns to be universal.

I think dice combination games are going to be popular as well.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#68

Post by akkartik »

CydeWeys wrote: post #63
andai wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the smartest animals on earth apart from primates are dolphins, crows and octopuses. But most aliens are portrayed as humanoids. I can't remember a single alien movie with sea creatures or intelligent birds. But if anyone knows some, please let me know :) I think the body shape part is relevant here because it determines what kinds of games are possible or practical. A species of intelligent octopuses might play…

There are some birds that are better at tool use than you might think, too. It's worth pointing out that Go is a purely mathematical game. You don't need a board at all to play it, especially not if your memory is good enough. Chess Grandmasters don't need boards to play Chess, for example; they can simply say the moves to each other and both will have the same image of the board in their mind. So you could have inte…

Some humans can play Chess in their minds, yes. But would they have learned to play Chess if it was purely mind stuff? I don't think so.

We might one day have octopuses play Chess with us. But there may be other alien games we'd learn from them as well. Or not.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#69

Post by dwaltrip »

cylon13 wrote: post #55
CydeWeys wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? A lot of concepts in board games are pretty natural results of universal mathematics. There's only three regular polygons that will tesselate a board (we have plenty of board games that use all three of them), and there's only three dimensions that games can work in (and we have plenty of games of all three types; Candyland, for instance, is played along a 1D path, and the first player to reach the end wins)…

You're assuming a lot about what it means to be an intelligence. It's not the concept of a square that will potentially be missing from an alien lifeform. It's the complex circuitry involved in enjoying board games in the first place. One can imagine an intelligent lifeform evolving differently than us in such a way where the adaptation that makes games fun wasn't required.

If they have a civilization, they probably are social creatures, and thus probably enjoy playing. Most social creatures on Earth engage in play when they are young. Also, for many animals, playing helps them learn how to hunt.

Re: Questions I would ask God about the game of Go

#70

Post by sdenton4 »

coldtea wrote: post #57
rdlw wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They move faster at higher levels, and the exact speeds and line clear requirements are arbitrary.

> They move faster at higher levels Which proves it's not gravity -- gravity would move the same speed always (assuming a vacuum game stage), or would move proportionally to air resistance (so based on shape), etc.

There is gravity, but Tetris pieces are dropped from very high, and have achieved terminal velocity by the time they reach your board.
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