Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

thewalrus.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 79 posts

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#61

Post by paganel »

keiferski wrote: post #13

A similar phenomenon is the use of pets as pseudo-children or relationship partners. Babies are expensive and ruin your sleep for years. Significant others can cheat on you, leave or simply get boring. A cat, however, just like these YouTube boyfriends, is fairly inexpensive, practically takes care of itself, will always love you and will never leave. It is a sort of infantalization of the relationship process. I thi…

> and that difficulty, struggle and suffering are inherently worthwhile

Sure, I'll happily go through that "inherent struggle and suffering, but who's going to pay for childcare? Or for after-school (there's no way me and my gf would be able to raise a kid on one salary only). Who's going to economically "smooth things up" for me and my gf and our potential kid when one of us loses his/her job and can't find anything else for 3 to 6 months? My parents can't financially do it. Her parents can't financially do it. Our savings most definitely would not be enough to support the 3 of us for 6 months.

In other words and as much as I hate this word it really bugs me when some people lecture from a position of privilege when it comes to other people's lives. Please don't take this the wrong way, is just that I've heard the same discourse as yours from friends of mine and it really bugs me, especially as those friends are in a financially better position (their parents too), which makes a hell of a lot of a difference.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#62

Post by balfirevic »

keiferski wrote: post #24
AlEinstein wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“difficulty, struggle and suffering are inherently worthwhile, more authentic and character-building” Is there any research on this topic or is this just your opinion?

What is “research” supposed to mean in this case? It’s a philosophical proposition, one that has been expounded by thousands of cultures throughout history. If anything, justification for an easy, hedonistic life is the rarity.

Insofar as that is purely a philosophical proposition, there is nothing there for society to recognize - you might consider struggle and suffering worthwhile but you can't make that judgement for anyone else.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#63

Post by paganel »

michaelt wrote: post #48
CathedralBorrow wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if someone tells you that it is for them, will you inform them that they are wrong to feel that way?

A cat is a replacement for a child in the same way a electric kick scooter is a replacement for a truck.

I.e. they're better for the environment.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#64

Post by AlphaWeaver »

slx26 wrote: post #8

really engaging article. a couple comments: > treat loneliness as a serious health problem that could even lead to early death italics are mine. I've seen this written a lot of times, and I find it disappointing that we are focusing so much in reduced life expectancy. in my opinion, the real issue deserving the attention is the reduced life quality. now adressing the topic of the article: I think we should reflect mo…

> I think we should reflect more deeply about spaces, and how modern society is losing them. nowadays, practically every exchange involves money, products, services. if a space doesn't make sense in an economic sense, it tends to disappear.

I agree. This article parallels a discussion I've been having with some friends lately...

If you're interested in being a part of that reflection, evaluating how technology helps or hinders us from forming more meaningful relationships, I'm gathering a discussion group online specifically to answer these sorts of questions. It's called VC3 (https://vc3.club) and our sole goal is to have an intellectual conversation in this area. If this interests you, we would love to have you along!

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#65

Post by est31 »

alexis_fr wrote: post #15
est31 wrote: post #4

Don't date robots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrADTN-dvg

...because dating is the motivation for young men to accomplish awesome things, according to this video. It’s a fun thought experiment, though: - On one side, women provide half the work (a recent article on HN said they were now the majority of US workers), - On the other, if access to family life was a motivator in the 50ies, what is the motivator in the 2020ies, now that dating isn’t... vetted by parents/society/s…

Of course the video is an exaggeration. It still has a true core I think. People put a tremendous amount of work into attracting mates.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#66

Post by sansnomme »

slx26 wrote: post #8

really engaging article. a couple comments: > treat loneliness as a serious health problem that could even lead to early death italics are mine. I've seen this written a lot of times, and I find it disappointing that we are focusing so much in reduced life expectancy. in my opinion, the real issue deserving the attention is the reduced life quality. now adressing the topic of the article: I think we should reflect mo…

Because early death allows you to quantify the economic impacts. "Quality of life" isn't exactly a strong economic indicator.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#67

Post by faitswulff »

watwut wrote: post #19
keiferski wrote: post #13

A similar phenomenon is the use of pets as pseudo-children or relationship partners. Babies are expensive and ruin your sleep for years. Significant others can cheat on you, leave or simply get boring. A cat, however, just like these YouTube boyfriends, is fairly inexpensive, practically takes care of itself, will always love you and will never leave. It is a sort of infantalization of the relationship process. I thi…

Cat does not love you. It never leaves, cause you locked it. If you move away, cat prefers to stay. Treating children like pets would be effectively emotional abuse. And while dog can fill some of yours emotional needs, quite frankly, kids won't. I have children and had pet and I can tell you that those two are comparable in any way. Not just in easy vs hard scale, but it is fundamentally different relationship.

This is a pretty interesting article about animals and emotions by a primatologist: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/opinion/sunday/emotions-a...

It goes through a lot of emotions specifically thought to be human and shows evidence for them in animals. I couldn't find a paragraph to sum it up, but this might be the thesis of the article:

> Uniquely human emotions don’t exist. More and more, I believe that we share all emotions with other species in the same way that we share virtually every organ in our bodies with them. No exceptions.

> Like organs, the emotions evolved over millions of years to serve essential functions. Their usefulness has been tested again and again, giving them the wisdom of ages. They nudge us to do what is best for us. Some emotions may be more developed in humans, or apply to a wider range of circumstances, but none is fundamentally new.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#68

Post by Amezarak »

paganel wrote: post #61
keiferski wrote: post #13

A similar phenomenon is the use of pets as pseudo-children or relationship partners. Babies are expensive and ruin your sleep for years. Significant others can cheat on you, leave or simply get boring. A cat, however, just like these YouTube boyfriends, is fairly inexpensive, practically takes care of itself, will always love you and will never leave. It is a sort of infantalization of the relationship process. I thi…

> and that difficulty, struggle and suffering are inherently worthwhile Sure, I'll happily go through that "inherent struggle and suffering, but who's going to pay for childcare? Or for after-school (there's no way me and my gf would be able to raise a kid on one salary only). Who's going to economically "smooth things up" for me and my gf and our potential kid when one of us loses his/her job and can't find anything…

You can raise kids on one income. Millions of people are doing so in this country right now, many of them very likely with much less income than you. Half of the households in the US make less than 63k. Something like 80% of workers live paycheck to paycheck.

Your attitude though is very common and I think it reflects a deeper social phenomenon. The reality is that kids do not need that much to become a normal, well-adjusted adult. Food, active and caring parents, and clothes. That’s pretty much it. People believe they need a lot of gadgets and gizmos and various services (e.g., preschool), but the actual impact of these is either very small, unclear, or sometimes even negative. Nevertheless, people suffer a tremendous amount of anxiety over things like getting into a good preschool, Christmas toys, bedrooms for every kid, paying for college, etc. Why?

I don’t think it’s actually because deep down, we believe our kids are failures if we can’t pay for their Yale education, or if, god forbid, they don’t go to college at all. I think there’s something else going on. I’ve been thinking about this for a long while, but I’m not really prepared to formulate it, just to say money is not the real reason. I say this having two kids myself and one income, and a similar financial situation that you describe above, except for having the one income.

Re: YouTube Gives Us Love Without the Messiness

#70

Post by balfirevic »

endothrowho333 wrote: post #41
CathedralBorrow wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if someone tells you that it is for them, will you inform them that they are wrong to feel that way?

No, because remaining polite is important. But I will make a mental note of it, and infer that said person was socialized improperly (f.e poor family life, severe bullying, inability to form strong bonds, unstable or has no non-surface relationships with other people), and thereby stay away. I don't in anyway mean to offend, and I am certain the other would reply with "I don't want such a judgemental person in my lif…

"You say animals fulfill your emotional needs better than people? By God, I will prove you right!"
Post reply on HN