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For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

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Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#61

Post by dejv »

vearwhershuh wrote: post #30

"These things, they’re basically bulletproof. You can put 15,000 hours on it and if something breaks you can just replace it.” Amen. It is true that there is always someone saying "Things were better back then." But that doesn't always mean that they are wrong.

As a person operating decades old equipment I see trade offs here. Old machines are reliable and cheap to operate, but they are also NOISY, steering require quite some muscle strength and cabin without ac and filters is not pleasant and most importantly good for your health.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#62

Post by dsr_ »

catalogia wrote: post #44
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

How many times must it be demonstrated that "market forces" is not a silver bullet to every problem before people take the hint?

Market forces would work in this situation, if only the situation were different:

- if there were an existing competitive market, that would help.

- if there were a clear long-term market, that might inspire competition.

But in this case, market forces caused the problem.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#63

Post by onetimemanytime »

pleasantpeasant wrote: post #29

Right to repair laws need to be put in place. American corporations are trying to reach a point where you don't own products. You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them. And any alterations or repairs will come with a heavy price. It's already hard enough to repair your own vehicle without taking it to a dealership. How long until small car shops can't even fix any cars if they don't have the tool…

>>You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them.

Correction: You lease after buying them once. I doubt the govt will help, USA is kinda hands off

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#64

Post by cpach »

wetpaws wrote: post #23
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

Because there is no competition in the US.

Does farmers in other countries somehow enjoy a plethora of tractor manufacturers to choose from?

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#65

Post by skywhopper »

wvenable wrote: post #46
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

Why was this downvoted? I just made the same comment before noticing this one already done. Competition is what solves these kind of things.

Sure, but how do you propose to introduce competition into this market?

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#66

Post by catalogia »

dsr_ wrote: post #62
catalogia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times must it be demonstrated that "market forces" is not a silver bullet to every problem before people take the hint?

Market forces would work in this situation, if only the situation were different: - if there were an existing competitive market, that would help. - if there were a clear long-term market, that might inspire competition. But in this case, market forces caused the problem.

> X could solve Y if only Y were Z

That's a nice hypothetical, but hardly helps these farmers. The real solution is America's most hated four letter word: regulation.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#67

Post by okareaman »

lostgame wrote: post #51
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

If you don't know the answer to that - you may have wanted to think it through a little more. Manufacturing at scale is hard and expensive. John Deere has been doing it for years, creating the most reliable tractors in the world for decades and has only recently decided to bend customers over to give them the ol' in-out-in-out. A new brand would need to start from almost smaller than scratch, and have tens of million…

I like to do road trips as a hobby and I see a lot of Japanese and other Asian brand tractors in American farming areas,so there is competition

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#68

Post by ogre_codes »

melling wrote: post #6

“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

> We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

The advantage older equipment has is that a generalist can repair it because the equipment is fairly simple and well understood. Parts on older equipment are easier to source or sometimes can be fabricated by the farmer themselves. Newer equipment has tighter tolerances and components are more difficult to fabricate or repair. Computerized components require special tools to interact with and specific knowledge to configure. Newer equipment is more complex and thus more difficult to diagnose and repair.

Right to repair won't fix that. Regulations aren't going to make manufacturers return to having simpler machines, it can only force them to make the knowledge required to repair those machines public. If need a left-handed knurled whats-it to remove a part or a special diagnostics tool to service the electronics, regulations might force the companies provide documentation and sell those tools, but it won't remove the need for those special tools and domain expertise.

The only real way to change this would be for a manufacturer to pivot to selling field serviceable equipment which seems unlikely.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#69

Post by weinzierl »

I have an IHC (International Harvester Company) 433 that is about 60 years old and it is still in use occasionally for forest work. It is amazing how robust and reliable these old machines are.

Fun facts:

- It has 8 reverse gears and 16 forward ones. With a maximum speed of about 25 km/h this is very granular. On the other hand: the diesel engine is very forgiving and not easily stalled.

- It does have an operating hours counter instead of an odometer.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#70

Post by markvdb »

The Karhkiv tractor plant models from the USSR are one step easier still to maintain, and hence very popular outside the west:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Tractor_Plant

The XTZ 150K: http://xtz.ua/en/kolisni-tractory/xtz-150k-09-172.html

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